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Was The “Qana Massacre” Staged By Hezbollah?

From Israel Insider:

Hezbollywood? Evidence mounts that Qana collapse and deaths were staged

By Reuven Koret

July 31, 2006

It was to be a perfect Hollywood ending for Hezbollah. Just as the Israeli bombing of the village of Qana in 1996 brought a premature end to Israel’s Operation "Grapes of Wrath," so too a sequel of Qana II could change, once and for all, the direction of Israel’s current summer blockbuster, "Change of Direction." Ten years ago, world condemnation of an errant Israeli shell that hit a civilian compound forced then-PM Shimon Peres to curtail the offensive against terror bases.

The setting was also perfect: Kana was again being used as a primary site for launching rockets against Israeli cities. The IDF reported that more than 150 rockets had been launched from Qana and its vicinity at Israeli civilians, wreaking destruction in Kiryat Shmona, Maalot, Nahariya and Haifa. It was only a matter of time before the Israeli Air Force would come for a visit, using pinpoint targeting of the sites used to launch rockets, Hezbollah logistical centers and weapon storage facilities.

On the morning of July 30, according to the IDF, the air force came in three waves. In the first, between midnight and one in the morning, there was a strike at or near the building that eventually collapsed. There was a second strike at other targets far from the collapse building several hours later, and a third strike at around 7:30 in the morning. There too the nearest hit was some 460 meters away, according to the IDF. But first reports of a building collapse came only around 8 am.

Thus there was an unexplained 7 to 8 hour gap between the time of the helicopter strike and the building collapse. Brigadier General Amir Eshel, Head of the Air Force Headquarters, in a press briefing, told journalists that "the attack on the structure in the Qana village took place between midnight and one in the morning. The gap between the timing of the collapse of the building and the time of the strike on it is unclear."

Gen. Eshel appeared genuinely mystified by the gap in time. He "I’m saying this very carefully, because at this time I don’t have a clue as to what the explanation could be for this gap," he added.

The army’s only explanation was that somehow there was unexploded Hezbollah ordnance in the building that only detonated much later.

"It could be that inside the building, things that could eventually cause an explosion were being housed, things that we could not blow up in the attack, and maybe remained there, Brigadier General Eshel said.

Eshel reported that as recently as two days ago, military intelligence reported the building area had been used by the terrorists for storage or firing of weapons. It was a bad place to cram dozens of women and children.

There are other mysteries. The roof of the building was intact. Journalist Ben Wedeman of CNN noted that there was a larger crater next to the building, but observed that the building appeared not to have collapsed as a result of the Israeli strike.

Why would the civilians who had supposedly taken shelter in the basement of the building not leave after the post-midnight attack? They just went back to sleep and had the bad luck to wait for the building to collapse in the morning?

What we do know is that sometime after dawn a call went hour to journalists and rescue workers to come to the scene. And come they did.

While Hezbollah and its apologists have been claiming that civilians could not freely flee the scene due to Israeli destruction of bridges and roads, the journalists and rescue teams from nearby Tyre had no problem getting there.

Lebanese rescue teams did not start evacuating the building until the morning and only after the camera crews came. The absence of a real rescue effort was explained by saying that equipment was lacking. There were no scenes of live or injured people being extracted.

There was little blood, CNN’s Wedeman noted: all the victims, he concluded, appeared to have died while as they were sleeping — sleeping, apparently, through thunderous Israeli air attacks. Rescue workers equipped with cameras were removing the bodies from the same opening in the collapsed structure. Journalists were not allowed near the collapsed building.

Rescue workers filmed as they went carried the victims on the stretchers, occasionally flipping up the blankets so that cameras could show the faces and bodies of the dead.

But Israelis steeled to scenes of carnage from Palestinian suicide bombings and Hezbollah rocket attack could not help but notice that these victims did not look like our victims. Their faces were ashen gray. Their limbs appeared to have stiffened, from rigor mortis. Neither were effects that would have resulted from an Israeli attack hours before. These were bodies that looked like they had been dead for days.

Viewers can judge for themselves. But the accumulating evidence suggests another explanation for what happened at Kana. The scenario would be a setup in which the time between the initial Israeli bombing near the building and morning reports of its collapse would have been used to "plant" bodies killed in previous fighting — reports in previous days indicated that nearby Tyre was used as a temporary morgue — place them in the basement, and then engineer a "controlled demolition" to fake another Israeli attack.

The well-documented use by Palestinians of this kind of faked footage — from the alleged shooting of Mohammed Dura in Gaza, scenes from Jenin of "dead" victims falling off gurneys and then climbing back on — have merited the creation of a new film genre called "Palliwood."

There is increasing evidence that the Kana sequel is another episode in this genre, a variety which might be called Hezbollywood. The Hezbollah have evidently learned their craft well.

The current suspension of Israeli military air activity is supposedly intended, among other things, to be used for the investigation of what really happened at Qana. It is to be hoped that there are real journalists on the scene, and unbiased medical examiners, who will have the courage and intelligence to sort out the anomalies and contradictions, and get to the buried truth of what happened.

There is no shortage of victims in Lebanon and Israel these days. From this vantage point, at this time, it looks like in the case of Qana, the world’s media was duped in a cruel and colossal hoax by a terror organization that knows no moral bounds in its exploitation of suffering and anti-Israel hatred. But, as usual, the only party expected to pay the full price will be Israelis.

Yes, it would be a Hollywood ending for it all to end in Qana, exactly as it did a decade ago. But perfect endings, and perfect crimes, are rarely pulled off in real life.

Israelis will not be able to investigate this claim directly. The question remains whether honest men and women of other nationalities will let this likely lie stand or press for the revelation of the improbable and inconvenient truth.

As the author points out (like we have earlier) a strangely similar "atrocity" in Qana saved Hezbollah’s neck in 1996.

There is also the matter of the time gap, since the Israelis attacked at 1 am and the building collapsed hours later. And the inexplicable delay of the bodies not being removed until hours after that.

The light in the photos make it look like late morning or mid day or even later.

 

But, as the author also notes, the most compelling evidence is the photos of the bodies themselves. They simply don’t look like recently deceased bodies. But ones that have been dead for some time.

And this is certainly not something that one would put past the Hezbollah to stage.

The image “http://www.whitehouse.gov/ogc/apparatus/images/crafting-3.jpg” cannot be displayed, because it contains errors.

There’s a long tradition.

  Update!

And there is the question as to how the locals got this four story poster printed up so quickly:

Hezbollah supporters place a banner showing US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and reading in Arabic: “The massacre of children in Qana 2, is the gift of Rice. The clever bombs..Stupid,” in downtown Beirut.

The time and date on this photo from the AFP is Sun Jul 30, 2:36 PM ET. Of course we don’t know when the photo was actually taken.

But even if it was taken just before it was filed at AFP, that is pretty quick production from such a war-torn area.

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180 Responses to “Was The “Qana Massacre” Staged By Hezbollah?”

  1. SG

    “Their faces were ashen gray. Their limbs appeared to have stiffened, from rigor mortis. Neither were effects that would have resulted from an Israeli attack hours before. These were bodies that looked like they had been dead for days.”

    Rigor mortis normally begins after 3-4 hours, and is at a maximum after around 12 hours.

    Rigor mortis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigor_mortis

  2. artboyusa

    This is excellent reporting and critical analysis. Well done!

    They’ve got no industry, they don’t invent anything and a century later they still need foreigners to get their damn oil out of the ground for them but one thing the Arab world appears able to create and manufacture in quantity is fake atrocities, starting all the way back at Dir Yassin in 1948 to Jennin to right now. And why not? It works every time…there’s no shortage of self-hating useful idiots in the West who are ready, no - make that happy, to believe them. Let’s see if this piece gets picked up by the MSM or if thy keep pumping out the sob-sister propaganda we’ve been hearing.

  3. artboyusa

    The Jerusalem Post has this - “Delay in Screening Kana Footage causes PR Disaster” - and this, “Kana Collapse was Hours After attack”.

    http://www.jpost.com

  4. oki

    Confused here (as usual). Does KANA == QANA? I am trying to figure out if they are being used interchangeably or if they are two different areas marked out in the sand.

  5. toby7940

    Could this be another Michael Moore production, like “Fahrenheit 911″. Wouldn’t put it past that Lardass POS!!

  6. artboyusa

    Same place, or places, Oki. Arabic to English equivalents are pretty elastic, which is appropriate for a place so screwed up. Just ask the Prophet Mohamed / Mohammet or look at the Holy Koran / Qu’aran / Quaran.

  7. 1sttofight

    Of course no autopsy will be preformed to acertain the actual cause of death.
    Strange that the pics do not show any injuries.
    I say they were gassed, maybe with carbon monoxide.

  8. esthier

    They certainly do look stiff.

    But I have to admit, this is a better turn out than a theory I had heard earlier. Some had theorized that because of the time gap, it is possible that civilians were forced to stay inside to die.

    And this does help to explain all the civilian deaths considering everything Israel is doing to stop them from occuring.

  9. PaisleyCow

    “Livor mortis or postmortem lividity, one of the signs of death, is a settling of the blood in the lower (dependent) portion of the body, causing a purplish red discoloration of the skin: when the heart is no longer agitating the blood, heavy red blood cells sink through the serum by action of gravity. This discoloration does not occur in the areas of the body that are in contact with the ground or another object, as the capillaries are compressed…Livor mortis starts 20 minutes to 3 hours after death and is congealed in the capillaries in 4 to 5 hours. Maximum lividity occurs within 6-12 hours.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livor_mortis

    It would certainly be hard to tell the bodies’ coloration from these photos, but maybe if there are more pictures you might be able to tell. At first I thought their skin color was from dust and debris, but you don’t really see that until the last picture SG put up.

    And why are they so willing to display the bodies? They are literally holding them up for people to see. That doesn’t seem to be like something Muslims normally do with their deceased, given what I’ve read and what SG and others have posted regarding Haditha, etc.

  10. SG

    Two must read articles from EU Referendum:

    EU Referendum
    http://eureferendum.blogspot.c.....ng-it.html

    Notes, among other things, the times given in the photo captions. (Thought it is probably a mistake to expect these to be accurate.)

    The second post,

    EU Referendum
    http://eureferendum.blogspot.c.....s-man.html

    Claims that the guy in the green helmet and glasses who figures so prominently in many of the Qana photos just happened to be heavily involved in the 1996 Qana photo op.

    If true, it’s another bizarre and suspicious aspect to this fishy story.

  11. crosspatch

    Israel should have imagry from the strike itself and followup assessment imagry and that area should have been under surveillance from UAVs looking for more launches. That Israel has been so quiet gives me hope they are getting their ducks in a row for a thourough display of what happened.

    If bodies were brought into that building, I wouldn’t be surprised if they have UAV surveillance of it.

  12. PaisleyCow

    It seems like one of the victims in your second EU link, SG, has some discoloration, possibly from livor mortis. However, it seems to be either in the back of his arms or legs (I can’t tell which from the photo). As the Wikipedia article said, livor mortis doesn’t occur in body surfaces touching the ground, as someone who is sleeping’s arms and legs likely would be. So why are they discolored?

    Maybe I’m reaching a little too far here on very little evidence….this whole thing just reeks of something vile to me.

  13. Undertoad

    I am pro-Israel but I think this will turn out to be fog of war. The midnight attack collapsed the building; it took until morning to determine what happened and call for rescue workers. This is not hard to believe in a war zone overnight.

    The Israeli air force brig. gen’l who thought the building collapsed at 7am was probably reacting to the fact that there was that other IDF sortie at that time.

    The story from the Lebanese on the ground was that the building went at 1am. The ashen bodies and rigor mortis confirm that.

  14. 1sttofight

    From the Blackfive site,

    I lived until 2002 in a small southern village near Mardshajund that is inhabited by a majority of Shias like me. After Israel left Lebanon, it did not take long for Hezbollah to have its say in other towns. Received as successful resistance fighters and armed to the teeth, they stored rockets in bunkers in our town as well. The social work of the Party of God consisted in building a school and a residence over these bunkers! A local sheikh explained to me laughing that the Jews would lose in any event because the rockets would either be fired at them or if they attacked the rockets depots, they would be condemned by world opinion on account of the dead civilians. These people do not care about the Lebanese population, they use them as shields, and, once dead, as propaganda. As long as they continue existing there, there will be no tranquility and peace.

    Dr. Mounir Herzallah
    Berlin-Wedding

  15. SG

    “The midnight attack collapsed the building; it took until morning to determine what happened and call for rescue workers. This is not hard to believe in a war zone overnight.”

    The IDF seems pretty definite about the building not collapsing until 7:30 or 8 in the morning. But you may be right.

    Note that some of the time captions the EU blogger references are earlier than that. Which I think (given the light, etc.) just shows that the time stamps are not to be trusted.

  16. SG

    “Claims that the guy in the green helmet and glasses who figures so prominently in many of the Qana photos just happened to be heavily involved in the 1996 Qana photo op.”

    BTW, looking at the video that the 1996 photo is a screen grab from, I’m not so convinced that it is the same guy.

  17. robinboyd

    I, too, had questions about the rigor mortis and even spent some time researching it last PM. The pics of the bodies on the ground (I think they were from Yahoo Images) showed legs contracted and arms stiff in the air. Definitely signs of rigor mortis. Also note how the childrens hands are clenched. The photos showed the “rescue workers” digging victims out in a location that had a fairly intact ceiling. How did they get buried in that location?

  18. crosspatch

    “The midnight attack collapsed the building; it took until morning to determine what happened and call for rescue workers. This is not hard to believe in a war zone overnight.”

    Israel should have some pictures to tell if the building was standing or not. You generally look at a target after hitting it to determine if it was destroyed. And imagery from the later strike might also contain some views of the previous strike site as well.

    “Which I think (given the light, etc.) just shows that the time stamps are not to be trusted.”

    Photogs might have their cameras set to their home timezones and not the local time, or possibly GMT.

  19. SG

    “Photogs might have their cameras set to their home timezones and not the local time, or possibly GMT.”

    And it’s more likely that the times on the captions reflect when the wire service posted them on the internet. Or maybe just when they were filed.

    In any case, they probably don’t mean much.

  20. suek

    Here are two articles that are worth reading (from American Thinker). The first is not very long, but the second is pretty long. What they say is pretty much what is being said here, but in a very historical context.

    http://tinyurl.com/ql3n4 Innocents as tools of war

    http://tinyurl.com/s36v9 the ho chi minh trail to Beruit

  21. crosspatch

    If Israel had evidence that the building was still standing, that it was “loaded” with casualties, or that it was demolished not coincident with a strike, I would have expected them to have presented that by now, or by tomorrow morning (tonite our time) at the latest. (I know, this contradicts the earlier hope I expressed about getting their ducks in a row but I have thought about it a little more) They were very quick in producing the video of the rockets being launched from the area. If they see that the building was destroyed in the strike, it isn’t beyond logic that they would let things lay with the apology they have already issued rather than add more grist to the propaganda mill by producing video of the strike.

    While it the casualties were probably milked for their propaganda value, so far everything is going to rest on when the building collapsed and what went on around that building between the strike and the collapse. It is quite possible that there isn’t much/any documentation of that event and that period.

  22. sheehanjihad

    Just an observation….but on Fox, they were reporting candidly that there is evidence of the whole thing being a Hezbollah created “photo op” for sympathetic journalists to trumpet to the world. I noticed that the bodies they showed were strangely bereft of the contusions and marks generally caused by the blast overpressures from a direct hit from a precision guided munition, and post mortem livididy was indeed absent. I am no expert, but I have seen the result of human beings being within the CEP of a bomb, and it isnt pretty.

    Tyre has a large morgue where lots of bodies are stored, and it is within easy driving distance to Qana, and not beyond the capabilities of Hezbollah to orchestrate another “atrocity” using civilians as props. The IDF must not cave into world opinion, especially since it is being led by the nose by Hezbollah, and I personally think that the time line, the condition of the bodies, and the fact that the media was called up prior to any rescue efforts puts a stamp of scurrilous behavior on Cindy’s freedom fighters.

    In any event, if you want your kids to have a sleepover next to a Hezbollah rocket launcher vehicle, you shouldnt be upset with the outcome. Israel has every right to take out the rocket sites with impugnity, and regardless of the weak spineless human rights jerk offs crying in their beer, war is war, and people get killed. Innocent and guilty alike, they die. Perhaps Hezbollah should return the kidnapped soldiers and stop firing rockets into the civilian population south of the Lebonese border…..then the attacks by Israel would stop.

    There is as much chance of that happening as Cindy “the snag” Sheehan getting down from Casey’s coffin, and shutting her huge trap, and going back to her inane worthless existence. The people like her and her hero terrorists need the media to keep up what they started. They cant stop, they are addicted to their warped sense of right….regardless of who they hurt, and who they kill. The are disgraceful. Cindy is ugly too. Not only her features, but her mind is ugly. full of disgusting hatred, just like her freedom fighters. They deserve the same fate.

  23. crosspatch

    Problem is that for them to still have rigor mortis, they would have to have been dead from 4 to 36 hours, they would have had to be “fresh” casualties.

    Another possibility has dawned on me …. gas explosion. If the earlier strike ruptured a gas line, those people could have suffocated long before the building collapsed or they could have survived the collapse but suffocated from CO from a gas explosion that collapsed the building. Remember, the miners in West Virginia died from CO caused by a gas explosion.

  24. groovygrl

    But doesn’t CO poisoning leave a “cherry red” skin?

  25. Exeter

    “I noticed that the bodies they showed were strangely bereft of the contusions and marks generally caused by the blast overpressures from a direct hit from a precision guided munition…”

    SJ - I noticed this, too. I don’t want to sound gruesome here, but why no appreciable burn or scorch marks? No tattered clothing? No apparent perforations or lacerations? No missing limbs? No blood? I don’t know what kind of ordnance the IAF used on this target, but even the standard Mk82 GP bomb has blast and fragmentation. I’ll have to rely on your experience regarding the effects of bomb-blast on human bodies since I’ve never seen it myself, but I draw the same conclusion: I don’t believe these kids died in the airstrike.

    The speed at which the rescue workers and photographers reacted is suspicious, too. It looks like they knew right where to go for the story. Not to mention the extraordinary number of casualties (most of them women and children, of course). It’s startlingly convenient how many noncombatants die every time the Israelis strike back.

  26. groovygrl

    And the little boy in the ambulance…I’m puzzled by his body. That’s very strange positioning.

  27. crosspatch

    “But doesn’t CO poisoning leave a “cherry red” skin?”

    Not sure what it looks like at death. The lack of oxygen would lead me to believe it would be blue, but I just don’t know. It certainly would explain a delayed collapse of the building, though, if the gas built up and exploded later. They could have been suffocated by the gas itself too, and not CO.

    Just sayin that there are ways a building can collapse much later that don’t have anything to do with a bomb. An earlier strike could break a gas line and the gas leak in to the basement.

  28. fluffy

    Two things:

    First, the guy in the helmet, glasses and flak jacket is badly mis-handling the toddler’s corpse. If I was buying a chicken I would be upset with a butcher that treated it like that.

    Second, it does show up better at Milking It, but you can see it here. The baby’s very dusty corpse is sporting a brand new pacifier, straight from the package. It is the cleanest looking binky I have ever seen.

  29. crosspatch

    Even so, this Israeli action has nowhere near the civilian casualties as the 1982 action when over 15,000 died. The IDF lost over 100 just taking Bent Jbayal last time. This time the action is quite different and Israel is bending over backwards getting civilians out of the area. So when you look at 700 dead compared to 15,000 dead you see that Israel has in fact been using great restraint.

  30. niceguysfca

    Boy it is really sad when you have to stoop to such levels to deny anyone else’s suffering. If this were Jewish/Israelis that died we would be hearing words like Holocaust because obviously only Jews deserve sympathy. I find it interesting that in spite of the skewed anti-Hizballah hysteria in the US mainstream press still 65% of Americans do not want the US to support either side. If Americans only knew what kind of state the Israel really is there would a clamoring for us to cut aid altogether. NO one and I mean no I know supports Israel and its actions. Isn’t it telling that the biggest supporters of this endeavor are the neo-Cons and the Christian Right. THIS IS SO SICK NOT ONLY DO YOU BOMB A PEOPLE BUT YOU DENY THEM ANY SORT OF COMPASSION.

  31. robinboyd

    Exeter - there are no scorch marks on the building either (at least from the pics I’ve seen)

    Fluffy - great catch on the binky. You are right on target.

    I checked some of the pics from the Halajba(?) chemical weapons attack in Iran (by Saddam). Most of the children have their hands clenched like these children. Also there are some that have the blood around their mouth like the one little girl in Qana. Could the children have been killed by some type of toxic chemical?? Maybe my tinfoil hat is too tight today….

  32. crosspatch

    Check this out.

    Qana building destroyed by Hizbollah IED
    Rumors circulating over what destroyed a residential building in Qana are increasingly pointing to Hizbollah rather than Israel’s precision missile strikes.

    According to well placed sources, with access to IAF recon photos, the residential building in Qana was destroyed by a Hizbollah IED at 0700 Sunday July 30, 6 hours after the Israeli strike.

    Further reports indicate that Hizbollah guerilla fighters restricted residents from leaving the area possibly shooting anyone that attempted to leave the Qana residential building.

  33. 1sttofight

    A few words for niceguysfca ;
    Go straight to hell you liberal terrorist loving son of a bitch.

    I feel better now.

  34. SG

    Nice Guy had an intriguing email address: “Ask Seattle.”

    Yeah, I think he sounds like a terrorist, too.

  35. sheehanjihad

    Nice guy? SFCA says it all….and that is why Hezbollah can put up shit like they do, because jerk offs like “niceguy” believe it. It helps that he hates Jews, and America too. But morons are so easily influenced. Proof…read above.

  36. 1sttofight

    Can you post his email addy?

  37. crosspatch

    niceguysfca …

    Hezbollah bombed Israel 150 times yesterday with rockets. Doesn’t that count? If you toss rockets into a neighboring country, you get what you deserve.

  38. SG

    In perusing the casualty photos, you will note that almost all of them are of the same two or three victims. The others are in plastic body bags, etc.

    There were photographers there from all over the world. Why have they gotten so few photos of these 60 victims?

    And why are the “green helmet guy” and the “white tee shirt guy” in almost all of them?

  39. sheehanjihad

    niceguy doesnt need to be bothered with facts…Hezbollah are the victims in his warped mind, and neocons and Israel are the bad guys. Niceguy needs to change his name to incredibly dumb guy.

  40. crosspatch

    Fox had video if at least two injured casualties being brought out on litters. Both were military aged males. Both alive and seeming not to be in much discomfort. One raised his head and looked around. No expression of pain on their faces or any outward signs of injury.

  41. crosspatch

    None of the pictures I can find give a wide angle view of the building either so one might be able to see how it collapsed.

  42. fluffy

    Nice guy SF, CA:

    We are not the ones denying compassion. I don’t think anyone here likes looking at dead children. This is the sort of revulsion that the Lebanese “Party of Allah” is counting on.

    “See? Dead children! Make them stop!”

    What we are focusing on here is the HezB’Allah is using this as a photo op.

  43. Exeter

    Clearly, niceguy didn’t check out the links suek posted - otherwise, he might have realized the bad guys are playing him like a piano. I can forgive ignorance, but not stupidity.

  44. crosspatch

    I see at least one person posting on the net that early pictures of “binky baby” were without the binky and that it was added later.

  45. crosspatch

    Some additional comments by Eshel:

    In the second IAF strike on Qana, which took place at around 2:30 A.M. Sunday, IAF planes bombed two targets located about 500 meters from the building that collapsed, and in the third strike, at around 7:30 A.M., three targets were bombed 460 meters away from the building, Eshel said. He told reporters that an analysis of photographs of the strikes, taken by cameras installed in the warplanes, showed that the four bombs dropped during the second and third strikes hit the intended targets, and that an IAF plane sent on a photo sortie in the afternoon confirmed that the intended targets had been hit.

    The IDF has not released the aerial photographs, which Eshel said were being processed.

  46. zoomie

    “NO one and I mean no I know supports Israel and its actions”

    “Nice Guy” (and I use the term loosely), obviously you don’t know anyone but liberals and anti-semites. Why you are posting at this site is beyond me. If you’re smart (and I highly doubt that), you will go on your merry way and visit one of YOUR blogs. See, they eat TROLLS around here…..

  47. 1sttofight

    zoomie,
    He is the same guy who can not understand how Bush was elected. No one he knows voted for Bush. ;)

  48. groovygrl

    You know, I cried when I saw those babies. It’s nothing short of evil that Hezbollah would use children as human shields. That their “brothers” would strap explosives to their chests into marketplaces and maim, dismember and mutilate women and children. It’s worse than evil that they walk into schools and kill and terrorize children (Beslan). That this particaular party wanting pity and protection have been lobbing missiles into Israel for years and kidnapping Isrealis and murding innocents, tourists and civilians for decades and no one has done anything. Israel has shown incredibly restraint to the point that Hezbollah though they were immune from the repercussions of their terrorist and violent actions. They are counting on responses like UN-niceguy to let them continue their rape, torture and murder unpunished. Those babies died at the hands of Hezbollah. God Bless Israel and the USA. May we continue our support!

  49. zoomie

    Ah First, THAT guy!!!

  50. Exeter

    niceguy posted: “Isn’t it telling that the biggest supporters of this endeavor are the neo-Cons and the Christian Right.” Allow me to rant for a minute…

    I’m tired of getting misrepresented. I am NOT a ‘neo-Con’! I have long-established credentials as a ‘paleo-Con’. My first vote was for Ronald Reagan, and I was the only Reaganite in my high school. I supported Nixon and deplored Carter even before I was a teenager. My earliest political recollection is gloating over Nixon’s defeat of Humphrey. I was even named after Barry Goldwater (middle name). I have a feeling I came out of the womb holding the ‘Nixon salute’ in both hands. NEO-Con? Not hardly!

    Also, I’m a Catholic, which I don’t believe puts me in the ‘Christian Right’ category, since most members of my Church (sadly) tend to march more to the left than the right.

    Advice for niceguy: stop painting with such a broad brush - labeling and name-calling only prove that you’re bereft of intelligent argument.

    Okay, end of rant. I have seen nothing in anyone’s postings that suggests ‘denying compassion’ for the victims. But war ALWAYS has victims, and that doesn’t nullify the moral imperative of continuing the war. Furthermore, I want no less than full and fitting punishment for the criminals who killed these children. But whether they were killed in the Israeli bombing or elsewhere, the finger STILL points to Hezbollah. ‘Compassion’ should not preclude ‘justice’.

  51. zoomie

    And the sad thing is those children who survive this carnage will grow up hating Israel without ever really knowing why. They have been spoon-fed such hatred since birth, talk about child abuse! I think the day this country turns it’s back on Israel, it will truly be over for us.

  52. zoomie

    Exeter, you are so correct. It’s not that we lack compassion, we just have enough sense to not believe every little thing the MSM feeds us. More and more of these hoax and frauds are debunked quickly because there are people who can think and reason intelligently. It doesn’t hurt that there are a great many people who can ferret out the truth thru various channels and get the word out via places like this. There is still hope for us yet…

  53. prohoridzo

    Should anyone still need to be convinced….

    In a letter to the editor of the Berlin left-wing daily Die Tageszeitung (TAZ) a Lebanese Shia explains how after Israel’s withdrawal from South Lebanon, Hezbollah stored rockets in bunkers in his town and built a school and residence over it.

    I lived until 2002 in a small southern village near Mardshajund that is inhabited by a majority of Shias like me. After Israel left Lebanon, it did not take long for Hezbollah to take have its say in other towns. Received as successful resistance fighters and armed to the teeth, they stored rockets in bunkers in our town as well. The social work of the Party of God consisted in building a school and a residence over these bunkers! A local sheikh explained to me laughing that the Jews would lose in any event because the rockets would either be fired at them or if they attacked the rockets depots, they would be condemned by world opinion on account of the dead civilians. These people do not care about the Lebanese population, they use them as shields, and, once dead, as propaganda. As long as they continue existing there, there will be no tranquility and peace.

    Dr. Mounir Herzallah
    Berlin-Wedding

    http://judeoscope.ca/article.php3?id_article=0429

  54. SG

    Thanks for posting that, Prohoridzo. And welcome!

  55. nodems

    A few questions I have:

    Why were there mostly women and children in this building? Were their men were out looking for Israelis to kill/murder?

    Would I be surprised if these people were forced to stay in the building and the Hezbos bombed the build with them in for casualties purposes? NO. Why, because these same tactics were used in Breslan. Remember how the Muzzies in Breslan put the women and children in the windows so that the Russians wouldn’t shoot back? No, I would not put anything past the Hezbos at all.

    I saw a film clip on one of the alphabet news that showed a mother crying and wailing for her three children that supposedly got killed in the building. No dust on HER. And why would she have escaped (without dust) and left her babies in the building while she ran out? Some mother…

    More posers for the cameras trying to win the PR war because the Israelis are kicking their butts in the real war.

    Israel - keep on fighting. Don’t let up. Run these losers to the north of Lebanon and into Syria.

  56. crosspatch

    nodems, I think you hit on an important aspect of all of this, the media allowing itself to be spoon-fed the information and then reporting it verbatum without questioning it. They could be afraid they will be ejected if they ask legitimate questions or expose propaganda and so in order to stay in the country and get their shot at a Pulitzer, they have to act as the pipeling for the Hezbollah propaganda machine. I don’t know for sure but I know this has been going on for a very long time.

    Look at the various photos that AP and Reuters release, unflattering photos of our leaders whenever the chance presents itself. The bottom line is that photojournalism and journalism itself has become corrupt. Rather than attempting to be a mirror, they would instead want to be a movie or facilitate the transmission of something someone else would want us to believe.

    They need to stop doing it but I don’t think they will. They’re just knuckleheaded like that.

  57. DEZ

    niceguysfca.
    Near as I can tell every one was asking questions and trying to get answers.
    This group knows when something stinks aside from liberal trolls!
    I for one have compassion, Just none for bottom feeders like you.

  58. Exeter

    “Why were there mostly women and children in this building?”

    There’s the rub, nodems. That’s the single question that no one in the MSM ever asks. What were all those women and children doing there? Why did they remain behind, when the rest of the town apparently heeded Israel’s warning of impending attack? Why were the Hezollah conducting their operations in such close proximity to noncombatants? Of course, we know the answers to all these questions - and so, I suspect, do the reporters, which is why they don’t ask them. Which leads to the biggest question of all: Why are the media not asking these questions? The answer will NOT astound you.

  59. Exeter

    DEZ - good to hear your clarion call of reason! I haven’t heard from you in a while.

  60. doingwhatican

    54 Lebanese died….37 children and 17 women….in the building roughly eight (8) hours afterwards. This is the way the Islamofascists operate….gather up their own and kill them. Our terrorist supporting media ejaculates this propaganda to stupid Americans and expect them to swallow.

  61. sheehanjihad

    The trouble is, we, who are not experts, see through this like a pane of glass, and the “experts” from the media, keep telling us how the bombs went directly into the kid’s crib. This is bullshit. When are people going to learn that the religion of peace has no regard for human life. NONE~! This is the Islam our left is protecting, and our media is glorifying. they are so ignorant it is pathetic.

  62. PaisleyCow

    EX, there are tons of conservative Catholics out there (at least you, me, and EQ01 here), but they suffer from the treatment most conservatives get: they are shouted down by liberal loudmouths. One reason evidenced in this Israeli situation is that liberals and Muslims are trying to shout everyone down because they don’t understand what this fight is for. They don’t understand that defeating evil doesn’t mean slapping some wrists and then capitulating. While protecting what good we can, we are obligated to destroy evil. The US and Israel (and others) have sat idly by for too long, and now we are seeing the fruits of years of capitulation and appeasement in Israel, Sri Lanka, Somalia, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, North Korea, etc. The list goes on and on.

    NiceguySTFU, wake up and smell the crazed Islamofascist hatred. The time for action has long since passed, but as the saying goes, better late than never.

  63. Exeter

    “Our terrorist supporting media ejaculates this propaganda to stupid Americans and expect them to swallow.”

    DWIC - that’s your most disturbing metaphor to date. (Oh, the things the Clinton administration must answer for!)

    “This is the Islam our left is protecting, and our media is glorifying. they are so ignorant it is pathetic.”

    SJ - It’s not ignorance - it’s deliberate. Since the fall of the Soviet Union, the new Left has had no model to idealize, so their efforts have turned to a nihilistic cause of destroying the US. In this cause, ANY enemy of America will do - no matter how radical or violent it is. David Horowitz’s “The Politics of Bad Faith” spells it all out. I recommend it - it’s an eye-opener (and by a former commie, no less).

    But there’s good news. Thanks to Rush Limbaugh, FOX News, Ann Coulter, and websites like this one, the Left no longer enjoys its monopoly on the news. Keep fighting - truth will out!

  64. dulcimergrl

    Paisley, please add me to that ‘conservative Catholic’ list.

  65. DEZ

    “Our terrorist supporting media ejaculates this propaganda to stupid Americans and expect them to swallow.”
    Great now I have beer in my keyboard, All over my desk and monitor.
    But thats the best laugh I have had in weeks.

  66. DEZ

    Exeter I am here every day.
    Just been silent lately, The troll was not getting away without my 2 cents.
    And thanks for saying hi,

  67. Exeter

    You’re right, Pais - there IS a cadre of Catholics out there who know evil isn’t turned back by discussion groups and guitar-strumming. They’re what I call the ‘thinking Catholics’ - as opposed to the ‘touchy-feely Catholics’ who sing Qumbaya and hold bake sales for Palestine. My sister-in-law is one of these (God bless her, but she’s a foolish woman!). From what I’ve seen, the ‘touchy-feelies’ seem to be in the majority - but maybe that’s only in my state. Or maybe they’re just the loudest.

    Anyway, it’s good to hear from my fellow Romans at S&L - Pais, EQ, dulcimergrl - Pax Vobiscum.

  68. 1sttofight

    If I would go to church on a regular basis, Baptist would rule the world.

    So there. ;)

  69. doingwhatican

    Add me to the list of smart Catholics.

    DEZ, hope your keyboard is still operational because we need you with us. Great commentary and sarcasm.

  70. DEZ

    Keyboard is fine, It was a fine mist of beer sprayed thru my nose.:O

  71. Liberty Belle

    You all remember the Gaza beach incident last month, when “Palestinians” blew themselves up and then blamed Israel. That was a very successful bit of propaganda for the Arabs. I can’t shake the feeling that Qana is much the same thing.

  72. crosspatch

    I was listening to Hugh Hewitt a few minutes ago when I was in the car on an errand. He said something that is so very true. The point was that if something works, you get more of it. And id Hezbollah is able to gain politically or strategically from the deaths of civilians, then we are just going to see more of that. It becomes in Hezbollah’s best interest to kill more civilians.

    Killing civilians is what Hezbollah is really best at. Their attacks on Israel are aimed at civilians, and their tactics inside Lebanon are designed to maximize civilian casualties. Until Hezbollah is made to pay a price for their tactics among the media, UN, and everywhere else, they are just going to keep doing it.

  73. 1sttofight

    If Israel would nuke Tehran, Hezibolla would get real quiet very fast.

  74. crosspatch

    Candygram for Mahmoud! Candygram for Mahmoud!

    (Sorry, I saw Blazing Saddles again last week)

  75. 1sttofight

    I swear I will shoot this nigger.

  76. SG

    “You all remember the Gaza beach incident last month, when “Palestinians” blew themselves up and then blamed Israel.”

    Gaza beach blast - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_beach_blast

    Of course Wikipedia tries to spin it for the Palis.

  77. fluffy

    Just a flippin’ minute!!

    This banner refers to a massacre at Qana? I had missed that point until now. Apparently, July 30th was marked as a ‘day of rage’ whether there was an incident or not. Unruly mobs ransacked a couple UN offices, there were spontaneous demonstrations in Damascus and now this.

    I have seen people raising questions about how long it would take to produce such a banner. Someone with experience in the business outlined how it would take a days work to produce such a banner. I’ll search for the post.

    Edit: Smoking Gun

    This morning, I posted some speculation that the 30-foot banner of Secretary of State Rice that miraculously showed up in Qana yesterday was probably prepared in advance, leading to questions whether the entire event was staged. Tonight, reader Postermaker made the following comments about that blog post:

    Since I do banners like this for a living, I can tell you it take more than a few hours depending on the equipment. A banner that large can be done one of two ways. With a grant format printer. It would probably take about 3-4 hours to print, then hours more to sew and grommet so it could hung. It would have to be Made of heavy duty material or one that was reinforced or the sheer weight would rip it apart.

    The other way it to use a smaller series of machines all color calibrated and produce sections. At that point they would have to be stretch the length of the banner ( read large facility) and sewn together. Additional support would go on the tops and bottoms.

    In short if it was related Qana and went up within two hours- four hours, it was done prior to the bomb hitting. No other way. Just putting an image together that large on a computer with Type would take a few hours.

    Then color tests, proofs and finally printing. That would be an all day affair for most print houses even with a grand format printer. The cost would be in the thousands.

    Then you would have to transport it.

  78. DEZ

    A banner like that is not done at a moments notice, So you are spot on Fluffy.
    A tremendous amount of work went into that piece.
    I would agree on a good days work.

  79. mathews

    it would take a couple of hours to print after it’s designed which would take a couple of hours, plus an hour to get the intelligence, plus an hour to get approval from nasalra, a couple of hours to walk it over, an hour to hang it up. hmmm let’s see; the time, materials of ink and silk screen poster, computers, printer, electrical generator, it’s way too convenient not to be made a day or so ahead of time.

    Let us hope the IDF will use it as a bulls eye target, doesn’t it identify a headquarters Hezbollah building!

  80. crosspatch

    I believe, but I am not positive that the graphics at the bottom of the poster are from the original Qana massacre. Wow. Now I am almost convinced that this was a setup. I really, really want to know exactly when that building went down.

  81. DEZ

    In my art work I have worked with printing companies.
    Doing that in a day would be pushing really hard.
    Something stinks here.

  82. SG

    “I believe, but I am not positive that the graphics at the bottom of the poster are from the original Qana massacre.”

    I think you’re right. It looks like some of the photos I’ve seen from then.

    Speaking of which, here is a selection of photos from the 1996 attack:

    Qana Massacre and Other :: Israeli Atrocities
    http://www.salaheddine.net/qan.....ana?page=1

    Note how different the causalities look from the current one.

  83. CKO1986

    Sorry to stray off-topic, but I thought you guys might be interested in this medical bulletin out of Havana:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200.....uba_castro

  84. fluffy

    crosspatch:

    From what I have read, the IAF hit a building where rockets were being fired (I saw film of the rockets launching) about 1 AM and the building collapsed about 8 AM.

  85. crosspatch

    Yes. They made a total of three strikes. One was around 1am, one around 2:30 am and another at around 7:30 am. The 1am strike, I believe, was the closest to the house involved. Also, apparently none of the people killed were residents of that house. They had all supposedly “sheltered” there for the night. Just too many coincidences to suit me.

  86. Exeter

    CP and fluffy - From what I understand, I think the only strike that actually HIT the building was the first one. The other two were against different targets, and hit nowhere near the place. I think there’s some speculation about the cockpit footage from the second and third attacks which, if they show this particular building still standing, will call into question the claims by Lebanon that the building fell with the first attack. I believe those are the salient points of the story, but someone with a better grasp of it (SG for example?) may clarify it better.

  87. crosspatch

    It isn’t even clear that the first strike actually hit the building in question as far as I know.

  88. Amazing_Ace

    Hey 1st to fight guy, I’m half black (and so Southerners all know me as “black”) and I know that’s a movie quote but watch yourself.

    I scanned these quotes and saw that and had to say whoa.

    Not cool.

  89. Amazing_Ace

    And by the way (a little OT, but it’s all GWOT), isn’t time we had our boys do a little “accidental strike” on this guy?

    http://tinyurl.com/r84rb

    I’m sick of giving these people all the freedom they could ever hope for and getting “leaders” who spout this ridiculous drivel.

    Obviously this nutjob can’t get his facts straight and only watches the MSM for his propoganda. Or else he’s just parroting what his Iranian puppet masters want him to say. He obviously has no grip on reality.

    Let’s let loose what firepower we really have and let Hizzballah, Iran, Syria, and these backwards pansies left over in Iraq get some real shock and awe.

  90. Exeter

    AA - I’m not overly concerned with the political rhetoric that comes out of Baghdad - like you implied, they know it’s America that keeps them in power, and they’re not about to ‘bite that hand that feeds them’ so to speak. Their biggest concern right now is looking like a government of Iraq, not an American puppet-regime, so they’re going to rail like this against Israel often. As long as their language doesn’t translate into action, they’re just blowing smoke. If it builds Iraqi confidence in their own government, let them spew all they want. That’s my take on it, anyway - history may prove me wrong.

    BTW - I’m not familiar with your monicker, so I assume you’re a FNG. Welcome to S&L!

  91. Lorenzo

    Where is the Geneva Convention in all of this? Hizzballah set this up from the get-go, putting launchers next to these sites. Evil reigns while playing at our heartstrings in this conflict! It’s Media Madness!

  92. artboyusa

    Meanwhile, as the whole world looks the other way, white-coated Iranian scientists bustle and hustle in their labs, getting closer every day both to having an Islamic atom bomb and to using it. They’re playing us like a piano.

  93. Warmonger Infidel

    artboyusa……spot on. They are playing us tactically and politically. We have Hezbollah in our (with Israel as our proxy) grasp to destroy them and we are going to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. They operate as they please, firing rockets into civilian enclaves with impunity and the world rages against Israel and the U. S. Our response is to back down, apologize and continue with nutty statements from Condi Rice.

    Out of one side of her mouth Rice says a cease fire is useless without a lasting peace. Out of the other side she says an agreement to cease hostilities can be reached within the week. Just who is this agreement with? Who is she going to negotiate with on the other side? Hezbollah has been at this game since bombing the U. S. Embassy in Beirut in 1983. They continued with bombing the Marine barracks in October 1983. Kidnappings and the killing of CIA Station Chief William Buckley continued in 1984. Also in that year we had the bombing of the Embassy Annex in Beirut and the hijacking of TWA 847, in which PO Robert Stetham was murdered. There are more but the fact that Hezbollah has killed Americans with impunity over the last 3 decades now demands a response that puts them out of business for good.

    So Condi wants to put a peacekeeping force on the border region between Israel and Lebanon? To do what? To do as all the previous peacekeepers have done under the guise of the freaking U.N.? Either sit there as targets of opportunity or actually aid Hezbollah in their terrorist acts?

    The answer isn’t negotiation. The answer is total dismemberment of Hezbollah, either voluntarily or by force. And the Iranians and Syrians need to be told without qualification to stay out of the fray or they will be treated as co-combatants with the other terrorists. Anything short of that is victory for the wrong side.

  94. esthier

    Exter, what’s a FNG?

    And I agree, Amazing_Ace. I’ve been on this site with 1st for a long time now (it’s almost been a year of this site) and would never think of him as racist or hateful (unless we’re talking about murderers), but I didn’t know the quote. I assumed it had something to do with a movie quote, but it certainly didn’t look good.

    And everyone else, check out this clip from youtube. It chronicles staged events.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....t%2Ecom%2F

  95. 1sttofight

    FNG means F***ing New Guy.

    Sorry if that quote upset you, maybe you shouldnt watch movies if you get that upset over a word.

  96. esthier

    Thanks.

  97. SG

    From YNet News:

    Lebanese website blames Hizbullah for Qana deaths

    Anti-Syrian elements in Lebanon openly point finger at Hizbullah as guilty of killing of dozens of civilians in order to curtail plans for disarming group. ‘Hizbullah has placed rocket launcher on building’s roof and brought invalid children inside in bid to provoke Israeli response,’ they write

    Roee Nahmias

    Is Hizbullah behind the tragic incident in the village of Qana that claimed the lives of some 60 people? While the Israeli army continues to investigate the circumstances leading to the building’s collapse, some in Lebanon do not hesitate to point the finger at the Shiite organization and claim it is to blame for the death of dozens.

    The Lebanese website LIBANOSCOPIE , associated with Christian elements in the country and which openly supports the anti-Syrian movement called the “March 14 Forces,” reported that Hizbullah has masterminded a plan that would result in the killing of innocents in the Qana village, in a bid to foil Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora’s “Seven Points Plan”, which calls for deployment of the Lebanese army in southern Lebanon and the disarming of Hizbullah.

    ‘Disabled children placed inside building’

    “We have it from a credible source that Hizbullah, alarmed by Siniora’s plan, has concocted an incident that would help thwart the negotiations.
    Knowing full well that Israel will not hesitate to bombard civilian targets, Hizbullah gunmen placed a rocket launcher on the roof in Qana and brought disabled children inside, in a bid to provoke a response by the Israeli Air Force. In this way, they were planning to take advantage of the death of innocents and curtail the negotiation initiative,” the site stated.

    The site’s editors also claimed that not only did Hizbullah stage the event, but that it also chose Qana for a specific reason: “They used Qana because the village had already turned into a symbol for massacring innocent civilians, and so they set up ‘Qana 2′.” Notably, the incident has indeed been dubbed “The second Qana massacre” by the Arab media.

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articl.....,00.html#n

  98. Warmonger Infidel

    SG…..what this lady says makes perfect sense and is what many of us here have been saying since the incident happend. I hope Ms.Nahmias has good body guards because Hezbullah will be looking for her head for speaking truth.

    And Condi Rice wants to negotiate with these animals? Or their proxy the Lebanese government? It’s time to hold Hezzbullah accountable for their actions now and for the last 30+ years.

  99. DW

    I heard Michelle Malkin on O’Reilly last night discussing these photos and the fact that a lot of people are questioning this story. O’Reilly cut her off (or tried to) and told her that the truth doesn’t matter, it’s what people think that matters.
    The no spin zone …?

  100. Warmonger Infidel

    DW….you weren’t hearing things. I head it too and wondered what in the hell O’Reilly was thinking. I think he’s been at it too long and has become too full of himself.

  101. PaisleyCow

    I missed that part of the show. It sounds like he’s trying to say that the only thing that will have an impact in the world is what people’s perception of the event is, but I would think he would be eager to uncover the truth and change people’s opinions. Oh, Bill and his Talking Points…

  102. 1sttofight

    Here is a link to a 18 min video called Pallywood. It shows just how the events are filmed. It is very good.

    http://www.seconddraft.org/streaming/pallywood.wmv

  103. esthier

    Hey, I think that’s the same one I posted.

  104. 1sttofight

    You are exactly right esthier , I guess great minds do think alike. ;)

    But everyone needs to see it.

  105. esthier

    I agree. It was eye-opening.

  106. mathews

    link to hezbollah posings of qana1 and qana2
    http://tyros.leb.net/

    no timestamps on photos, yet the photos named by downloaded sequence doesnt make sense with the plastic wrapped bodies being earlier than the posed photos.

  107. rocketman

    Paisley or whoever is keeping the duty roster - put me down as a Conserv. Catholic also

    Speaking of which, here is a selection of photos from the 1996 attack:

    Qana Massacre and Other :: Israeli Atrocities
    http://www.salaheddine.net/qan.....ana?page=1

    SG, last time I checked the pics have been removed.

    WI,Dw - I heard it also. O’Reilly starting to get under the skin. Did you notice these past two weeks on FOX, Hannity/Combes, Greta, etc all have worked 7 day weeks but NOT Ole Billy! Guess he’s too busy boycotting the Xxon-Mobil stations is his ‘hood.

  108. PaisleyCow

    Official S&L True Catholic Roster:
    PaisleyCow
    EnglishQueen01
    Exeter
    dulcimergrl
    doingwhatican
    rocketman

    We’re taking over!! Mwahahah!!

  109. Exeter

    Then we can impose Canon Law! Mwahahah!!

  110. rocketman

    I hear the Pope wants to convert all folks from Alabama :)

  111. 1sttofight

    I drink liquor now, what is to convert?

  112. rocketman

    You pass 1st -

  113. 1sttofight

    As long as I do not have to dress like a woman and wear those funny hats.

  114. SG

    “SG, last time I checked the pics have been removed.”

    That must have just happened.

    What a coincidence, huh?

  115. buzzhead

    I’m not Catholic, but my wife is. Does that count?

  116. Voice of Reason

    Two things. One of which has been touched on by others and I won’t doddle on further. Rigor. Has me questioning this from the moment I saw the first pics out of the zone.

    Two. Palcott (sp?) of Fox was one of the first on the scene I think along with some Clintonistas from CNN and one of his most telling observations was that Qana was a ghost town. He saw ZERO people other than those there specifically for this tragedy. Not even people milling about “looky looing”. So I am curious when you can’t find a sole from this town around (and this could go a LONG way to explaining the delay in reporting…nobody knew it happened but Hezbollah cuz they did it and it took till in the morning to get the TV peeps together and the sun to be up) how did 60+ ALL end up in this basement??? Maybe held there by Hezbollah?? Maybe locked in and blown up?? And if they were launching from near this building or on this building…why not move to another bombed out site in town…seeing as there wouldn’t have been ANYONE to tell you no.

    This could very well be the tragedy it is being reported as but it is VERY suspicious. And knowing what I know of mooselimbs and their willingness and pass from their religion to lie to non-mooselimbs….this could be waaaay different than what we are being told and shown.

    VoR

  117. Albertafriend

    I stayed up way too late last night researching this stuff. I found two key articles that supply a lot of details about this event. One is from a Lebanese paper, The Daily Star, and the other is from the sympathetic, anti-Israeli UK Guardian. They say there were 8 survivors and are claiming 60 “civilians” dead. They were the extended families of Abbas Hashem, the owner of the house, and the Shalhoubs, a close neighbor. It is described as a three-storey house but unfinished. They had all moved into the ground floor of the house (basement??) 10 days before.

    Now this seems almost incomprehensible to me from a practical standpoint. How do you accommodate 68 people on one floor of a “poor” man’s house? How do you provide meals and water for this many people? How do you provide for bodily functions? How do you keep track of 30 kids who one person says spent all day outside playing so they should have been seen by Israeli drones as they darted around in an area that is firing off rockets at Israel? My North American-housewife-mother-grandmotherly mind cannot even imagine this. I got incredibly ill at ease watching the “Cheaper By the Dozen” movies. I get nervous at Christmas when I have 14 members of my family on the ground floor (only floor) of my house and all wanting something to eat or drink. I would go completely crazy if I had been doing this for 10 days! But maybe these people are better able to cope than I would ever be.

    Mohammad Shalhoub, “a disabled (does not tell how he was disabled or in what way) 41 year-old” or the other article says “a slim 38-year-old construction worker” was a survivor, claims TWO bombs hit in “rapid succession at 1 a.m.” and the blast threw him across the room and buried him under the rubble with the “martyrs.” However, his wife rescued him and their son aged 4 but his daughter, aged 6, and his brother and sister were killed. (Daily Star)

    But the other article provides this contradictory information: He “lost his WIFE, FIVE children and 45 members of his extended family. “Around one o’clock we heard A (one bomb???) big explosion,” he said. “I don’t remember anything after that, but when I opened my eyes I was lying on the floor and my head had hit the wall. There was SILENCE. I didn’t hear anything for a while, but then heard screams.”
    “I said: ‘Allahu Akbar [God is most great]. Don’t be scared. I will come.’ There was blood on my face. I wiped it and looked for my son but couldn’t find him. I took three children out - my four-year-old NEPHEW (not his son???), a girl and her sister. I went outside and screamed for help and three men came and went back inside. There was SHELLING EVERYWHERE. WE HEARD THE PLANES. I was so exhausted I could not go back inside again.” (Guardian)

    I noted that his disablement is not defined but I wondered if it had been a previous “war” injury. This part of one article made me also wonder about his connection to the Hez’s: “We will never wave the white flag. We won’t retreat,” said Mohammad Shalhoub. (Daily Star)

    The Guardian provides this info: At about one in the morning, as some of the men were making late night tea, an Israeli bomb smashed into the house. Witnesses describe two explosions a few minutes apart, with survivors desperately moving from one side of the building to the other before being hit by the second blast.

    Is this possible? Can ‘a” bomb produce two explosions “a few minutes apart”? “When they found them, they were all huddled together at the back of the room … Poor things, they thought the walls would protect them.” This is not referring to the “survivors” but the dead. They are being described in the media as dying in their sleep but obviously if this statement were true they would have been awake and aware of what was happening.

    Also while the articles say the witnesses say TWO bombs, the Guardian contradicts its own article towards the end with this: The strike that destroyed the building was A (singular) precision-guided bomb dropped from the air, the same kind of bomb that destroyed a UN position in Khiyam last week, killing four UN observers. Writing on an olive green fragment of the MUNITION (singular) which appeared to have caused the explosion read: GUIDED BOMB BSU 37/B.

    I am also wondering why “some of the men were making late night tea” at 1 a.m. Had they been out on “business” and just returned for a little snack before going to sleep?

    The Guardian also mentions one of the surviving women: Said Rabab Yousif had her son on her knee when the bomb fell. “I couldn’t see anything for 10 minutes and then I saw my son sitting in my lap and covered with rubble,” she recalled. “I removed the dirt and the stones I freed him and handed him to the people who were inside rescuing us.
    “I then started freeing myself, my hands were free, and then went with two men to rescue my husband. We pulled him from the rubble. I tried to find Zainab, my little daughter, but it was too dark and she was covered deep in rubble I was too scared that they might bomb us again so I just left her and ran outside.” She was in hospital with her son and husband, who was paralysed and in a coma. There was no news of her daughter.

    This just doesn’t make sense. Why was she sitting at 1 a.m. with her son on her knee? Why did it take her 10 minutes to realize he was still on her knee? Even in the pitch dark she could have felt him there. Another account I read last night said that witnesses said it was so dark even outside that you couldn’t see your hand in front of your face. So how could she have suddenly ’seen’ him covered with rubble? She also does not mention a second bomb blast although she was scared there may be another bombing.

    Another Shalhoub man was also a survivor along with his cousin. (Guardian) Ibrahim Shalhoub described how he and his cousin had set out to get help after the bombs hit. “It was dark and there was so much smoke. Nobody could do anything till dawn,” he said, his eyes still darting around nervously. The Star says: Further air strikes and heavy artillery bombardments during the night–which destroyed at LEAST four other houses in the neighborhood –meant that it was another six hours before the rescue services could reach the stricken village.

    We know the Israelis dropped more bombs later but I’m sorry I don’t remember the times and I don’t want to go looking for them just now. But I wondered about the “heavy artillery bombardments”. Where was this coming from? Were they in range on Israeli artillery? Or is this just a little “literary flair” to borrow from Joe Wilson? Also the word “least’ is indicative of bias because the Israelis said they only bombed either 4 altogether or 4 after this house. (My foggy sleep-deprived mind can’t remember which.)

    The Guardian also tells us perhaps who the mysterious green Helmet guy is: As yet another body was removed from the wreckage yesterday morning, Naim Raqa, the head of the civil defence team searching the ruins…

    It also tells us who the pacifier-baby was: The youngest, Abbas Mahmoud Hashem, lay on his back with his head turned and his right leg drawn up. A dummy hung on a blue plastic chain round his neck; concrete dust covered his face and hair. He looked about 18 months old.

    It’s possible he was the owner’s son but then the Star made me thing he could have been a nephew. The Star tells us of “Noor Hashen, 13, a neice of Abbas Hashem, in whose house she was sheltering.” She said she had been rescued with her sister by her mother who took them to a neighbouring house. Then her mother went back to find her 3 brothers, the “youngest only 10 months old” (another discrepancy) and they all, including her mother were dead. This also substantiates that the collapse of the house occurred later than the bomb blast or else the mother would not be dead.

    The Star describes the condition of the children in this way: “coated in grey dust, eyes and ears clogged with dirt. They showed little signs of injury, however, despite having been sleeping just meters from where the bombs (notice plural) struck. “They suffocated under the dirt,” said Sami Yazbek, head of Tyre’s Lebanese Red Cross. (By the way, the Red Cross has reported only finding 28 bodies.) The Guardian says: They came across the smallest corpses last, MANY intact but with lungs crushed by the blast (note singular).

    Again there has been no indication in the media pictures or stories that I have seen that ANY were not intact except for the fact that they had died.

    So as you can see there is considerable confusing and contradictory information here. What do I make of it? I don’t think these bodies were planted from the morgue in Tyre since these articles do give names and describe relationships. I think considering the logistics mentioned at the beginning of my post and the statements from the Red Cross, the numbers have been greatly exaggerated (Remember Jenin). I do believe there is a high possibility that these were Hezbollah families and I don’t buy their reason for not leaving the town since so many others had already left as the Star reports “most residents of this village of some 12,000 people had already fled to Tyre, 10 kilometers to the west or headed further north.” They claim that the roads had been bombed so they couldn’t leave. Well anyone can walk 10 kilometers if they really want to, even children. On July 1st my family, including 2 adults over 60 and a child of 4 took a 4 kilometer walk after our barbeque and the little one walked the whole way by himself. If we had to go further we would have just rested a while and then carried on. My kids sometimes walked home 5 kilometers from their school when they were in junior high. Apparently there was an old man in his 90s but there were able-bodied younger men there that could have carried him. So that is not a valid excuse. If the roads were in such bad condition they couldn’t leave by vehicle, how did the Red Cross from Tyre get in with ambulances and the ‘refrigerated morgue” truck that other news articles mention? The Guardian says: Sami Yazbuk, the head of the Red Cross in Tyre said they got the call at 7am, but had to take a detour to Qana because of shelling on the road.” He doesn’t say that the road was destroyed and impassible, just that they had to avoid shelling.

    As to when and how the house came down we can only speculate but as I have said some parts of these articles question that the fall could have been immediately after the blasts. They claim they couldn’t do anything because of the darkness but since it is a known fact they had trucks in the area firing rockets, they could have used the headlights of the trucks to help in the rescue. So either they were waiting for the media or were idiots or of course they could be both which is proof of incredible ineptitude and despicable behavior.

    Here are the links for the articles:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/isra.....84,00.html

    http://www.dailystar.com.lb/ar.....e_id=74379

    Please check them out and tell us what you think.

  118. crosspatch

    By the way, AJ Strata is reporting that the death toll has now been cut in half. More here.

    “The Red Cross announced yesterday that 28 bodies, including those of 19 children, had been found at the site.”

  119. 1sttofight

    Albertafriend ,

    Short version since I dont type very well. They are liars.

    I do appreciate the time and effort you put into your post, but the truth is they are lying their asses off.

  120. vinman