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Obama’s Afrocentric, America-Hating Church

As readers here know, there has been some recent controversy about Barack Obama’s religious background.

Mr. Obama has recently issued statements through his spokesmen in the media (i.e., reporters) which express his shock at being questioned about such things.

Most of his media spokesmen (i.e., reporters) have then gone on to cite his membership in Chicago’s Trinity United Church Of Christ parish as proof that he is just a regular run of the mill American Christian.

But a visit to the Trinity Church’s website proves that it is not your everyday Christian parish:

Trinity United Church of Christ

About Us

We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian… Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.

Trinity United Church of Christ adopted the Black Value System written by the Manford Byrd Recognition Committee chaired by Vallmer Jordan in 1981. We believe in the following 12 precepts and covenantal statements. These Black Ethics must be taught and exemplified in homes, churches, nurseries and schools, wherever Blacks are gathered. They must reflect on the following concepts:

1. Commitment to God
2. Commitment to the Black Community
3. Commitment to the Black Family
4. Dedication to the Pursuit of Education
5. Dedication to the Pursuit of Excellence
6. Adherence to the Black Work Ethic
7. Commitment to Self-Discipline and Self-Respect
8. Disavowal of the Pursuit of "Middleclassness"
9. Pledge to make the fruits of all developing and acquired skills available to the Black Community
10. Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting Black Institutions
11. Pledge allegiance to all Black leadership who espouse and embrace the Black Value System
12. Personal commitment to embracement of the Black Value System.

The Pastor as well as the membership of Trinity United Church of Christ is committed to a 10-point Vision:

1. A congregation committed to ADORATION.
2. A congregation preaching SALVATION.
3. A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
4. A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
5. A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
6. A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
7. A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.
8. A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
9. A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
10. A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY.

Some excerpts from the "Black Value System" via the Trinity Church’s website (pdf):

BLACK VALUE SYSTEM

Statement of Purpose

We honor Dr. Manford Byrd, our brother in Christ, because of the exemplary manner in which he has thrice withstood the ravage of being denied his earned ascension to the number one position in the Chicago School System

The Black Value System

These Black Ethics must be taught and exampled in homes, churches, nurseries and schools, wherever Blacks are gathered. They must reflect the following concepts:

Commitment of God

“The God of our weary years” will give us the strength to give up prayerful passivism and become Black Christian Activist, soldiers for Black freedom and the dignity of all humankind…

Commitment to Self-Discipline and Self-Respect

To accomplish anything worthwhile requires self-discipline. We must be a community of self-disciplined persons, if we are to actualize and utilize our own human resources instead of perpetually submitting to exploitation by others. Self discipline coupled with a respect for self, will enable each of us to be an instrument of Black Progress, and a model for Black Youth.

Disavowal of the Pursuit of “Middleclassness”

Classic methodology on control of captives teaches that captors must keep the captive ignorant educationally, but trained sufficiently well to serve the system. Also, the captors must be able to identify the “talented tenth” of those subjugated, especially those who show promise of providing the kind of leadership that might threaten the captor’s control.

Those so identified as separated from the rest of the people by:

Killing them off directly, and/or fostering a social system that encourages them to kill off one another.

Placing them in concentration camps, and/or structuring an economic environment that induces captive youth to fill the jails and prisons.

Seducing them into a socioeconomic class system which while training them to earn more dollars, hypnotizes them into believing they are better than others and teaches them to think in terms of “we” and “they” instead of “us”

A visit to the church’s bookstore shows they have been true to their word. It is full of "Afrocentric" books, many of  which make the usual preposterous Afrocentric claims, such as that Cleopatra was black:

 

The book store also shamelessly hawks Mr. Osama’s books:

 

But Trinity Church’s proselytizing doesn’t stop with re-writing history and promoting its parishioners.

Here is the latest sermon from its pastor, Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright, Jr. (pdf file):

WHAT’S GOIN’ ON?

Sunday, January 21, 2007

Marvin Gaye’s powerful “message song” is a song that made him famous because it went against the “Motown entertainment rule.” It raised serious questions about the culture, the country and governmental policy.

His song raised questions about Black-on-Black violence, about drugs, about war and about the way in which we were living (or not living) in a very difficult period of history.

I use his words today on the third Sunday of a New Year to keep before you the painful truth of who we are and where it is we are in this racist United States of America! What’s goin’ on?

We have lost over 3,000 boys and girls in an illegal and unjust war, and the media is on a feeding frenzy about Barack Obama’s church. Where is the outrage about the 3,000 dead American military personnel and the 600,000 dead Iraqi civilians who are dead for no reason other than greed and ego? What’s goin’ on?

This past Wednesday, January 17th, the House of Representatives deliberated on a bill to cut interest rates on federally subsidized student loans. On Thursday, January 18th, the House of Representatives considered legislation that would repeal some royalties and tax incentives from the oil and gas industries and redistribute that money to alternative and renewable energy such as bio-fuels.

The media, however, is not covering that news. The media wants to know about Barack Obama’s pastor. What’s goin’ on?

On the weekend leading up to Dr. Martin Luther King’s birthday, the House of Representatives passed a bill requiring the United States Secretary of Health and Human Services to negotiate drug prices for the Medicare program. The President who is “staying the course” and sending 1,500 more troops to their death has issued a veto threat against the measure and there is no public outcry and no media outrage. What’s goin’ on?

The President, who is “staying the course” and sending 21,500 more troops to their death has issued a veto threat against the measure and there is no public outcry and no media outrage.

The President’s “New Plan” (more troops, more death and more war) promises an insane escalation — in Iraq, Iran and beyond! With the torture of Abu Ghraib, the complete destructions of cities like Fallujah and over 600,000 deaths due to collateral damage, the President complained in his speech that there had been “too many restrictions” on the actions of the United States Forces in the Iraq war.

The President’s “New Plan” (more troops, more death and more war) promises an insane escalation — in Iraq, Iran and beyond!

Am I the only one who heard that? What’s goin’ on?

I celebrate forty years of ordained ministry this weekend. I bask in the 40-year glow of God’s Grace, God’s forgiveness and God’s lessons about humility.

The e-mails that I have been getting this week, the news clippings that I am being sent and the racist blogs that are flooding the Internet make me know, however, that even as I bask, the work ahead for the church of Jesus Christ is just as serious and difficult today (if not more so) as it was forty years ago when I was ordained during the Vietnamese War!

The President tries to frame the justification for his insanity by using language describing the debate in this country over the war as “a great struggle between those who believe in freedom in moderation and extremists who kill the innocent.”

The reality, however, is that the entire war in Iraq and the larger “war on terror” have been based on lies, half-truths and distortions to serve the agenda of the United States imperialism. Where is the public outcry? Where is the outrage? What’s goin’ on?

There is more focus on what the Bears may or may not do as they play a football game against New Orleans than there is on the 3,000 homeless who are still living or displaced in the real life game called “New Orleans.”

Those poor Black and white displaced citizens of New Orleans (not imported team members playing for New Orleans), who have no place to go and no place to live because of this administration’s illegal war and its billions of dollars wasted on prosecuting that war, join with me in asking, “What’s goin’ on?”

Excuse me! The victims of Hurricane Katrina are no longer on the radar screen of the media. Only Barack, his church, his pastor and white arrogance!

I invite your sincere prayers this weekend. The generation of ministers behind me has its work cut out for them in some incredible and overwhelming ways!

Sincerely yours,

Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright, Jr.

So much for the separation of church and state.

Here is an interesting ad that appears in the sameTrinity bulletin:

Enlarge

Did Mr. Obama and his wife take this class when they signed up at Trinity?

Speaking of which, here is what is being promoted at the top of the church’s home page as we speak:

MEET SENATOR BARACK OBAMA!!!

On Sunday, January 28th, immediately following the 11:00 a.m. worship service, meet Senator Barack Obama, author of the best-selling book, Audacity of Hope. Purchase your copy of Audacity of Hope in the Akiba Bookstore and have it personally signed by Senator Obama. You do not want to miss this monumental experience!

Where is the ACLU?

And can you imagine the uproar if a white candidate belonged to a church that promoted a white value system?

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221 Responses to “Obama’s Afrocentric, America-Hating Church”

  1. nodems

    I guess the Democrats call for separation of church and state doesn’t apply here.

    The preacher can do a pro-OsamaObamaOrgasm and still apply for no tax status for the church.

  2. 1sttofight

    Wonder how many white folks are members of the messia’s church?

  3. nodems

    This URL shows all the churches’ sponsors:

    http://www.wjystv62.net/home.htm

  4. 1sttofight

    8. Disavowal of the Pursuit of “Middleclassness”

    What the hell does that mean?

  5. 1sttofight

    Where is the ACLU?

    You have got to be kidding SG, This is a Black Church we are talking about. One of the ones that ALL the dem candidates campaigne in.

  6. Media_man

    Obama has as much of a chance of getting elected POTUS as Jacque Chirac. He’s a purely media driven creation. That’s not to say he couldn’t pull 40% of the Dem vote, but they’d vote for a stick of celery of it was nominated. But to get elected nationwide? Not gonna’ happen.

  7. SG

    “8. Disavowal of the Pursuit of “Middleclassness”

    What the hell does that mean?”

    Actually, I just edited the article to quote their thoughts on this.

    It’s a pledge to not let themselves get controlled by “the man,” who wants to use them. Except for the 10 percent who could be leaders, who “the man” kills or has killed.

  8. englishqueen01

    nodems: Separation of church and state only applies to conservative churches. If you are orthodox, pro-life, find homosexuality incompatable with morality, etc. your church must be scrutinized and your priests, pastors, ministers can do nothing that may influence others to your position.

    Much like the “Fairness Doctrine” in broadcasting, “separation of church and state” is used to silence those the left disagrees with and/or those whose message it does not want heard. Why? Because allowing people to hear a conservative viewpoint - which is often supported by more evidence, logic, and reason than liberal positions - might actually convince people to think for themselves and out of lock-step with liberals.

    And we can’t have that happen, can we?

    1st: I don’t know exactly, but to me it seems a “disavowal” of “acting white”. That is, if you believe that you are ultimately responsible for your successes and failures, you’re not welcome.

    Through the use of Affirmative Action and other social programs, the left has constantly told minorities - especially African Americans - that they will never be successful because The White Man constantly works to keep them down. Therefore, the left has convinced generations that it’s okay to be uneducated (because doing well in school is “acting white”), that it’s okay to embrace gang culture and rap lifestyle, and to expect the state to hold your hand through every facet of life - bussing to meet “racial quotas” in schools, extra points on your college entrance exams, etc.

    I believe that statement to be a rejection of the basic principles on which this country was founded, and a rejection of working for a truly colorblind society that judges not by skin color, but by character…

  9. 1sttofight

    I see that now. They are a screwed up bunch. Does the name Jim Jones ring a bell?

  10. SG

    Jim Jones is exactly right, 1st. He would fit right in at Trinty Church.

    BTW, it’s been pointed out to me that the church’s pastor capitalized the word black in his sermon, but not the word white.

    I wonder why?

  11. 1sttofight

    BTW, it’s been pointed out to me that the church’s pastor capitalized the word black in his sermon, but not the word white.

    I wonder why?

    Maybe because he is a racist?

  12. Retired_Chief

    Wow. What ever happened to going to church to learn about God?

  13. 1sttofight

    Well, RC, you do reliaze that osamaobama is the new christ, Right?

    If not, you have not been watching Perky Katy.

  14. SG

    More from Trinity Church’s Pastor:

    War on Iraq IQ Test

    REV. JEREMIAH WRIGHT / Trinity Pastor’s Page 23feb03

    Take the War on Iraq IQ Test
    Do you know enough to justify going to war with Iraq?

    1. Q: What percentage of the world’s population does the U.S. have?
    A: 6% [correction - 4.8% of world's population - 6.2 billion vs. 280 million]

    2. Q: What percentage of the world’s wealth does the U.S. have?
    A: 50% [correction - 22% of global GDP]

    3. Q: Which country has the largest oil reserves?
    A: Saudi Arabia

    4. Q: Which country has the second largest oil reserves?
    A: Iraq

    5. Q: How much is spent on military budgets a year worldwide?
    A: $900+ billion

    6. Q: How much of this is spent by the U.S.?
    A: 50% [explanation - military expenditures for FY2003 may be $460-470 billion including $378.5 billion for the Pentagon, $15.4 billion for nuclear weapons programs, $3.8 billion for foreign military assistance, $1.4 billion for military-related activities of other agencies, $32 billion for military retirement benefits and health care for current employees, $30 billion for the CIA, plus funding for the Homeland Security Department]

    7. Q: What percent of US military spending would ensure the essentials of life to everyone in the world, according the UN?
    A: 10% (that’s about $40 billion, the amount of funding initially requested to fund our retaliatory attack on Afghanistan)

    8. Q: How many people have died in wars since World War II?
    A: 86 million

    9. Q: How long has Iraq had chemical and biological weapons?
    A: Since the early 1980’s.

    10. Q: Did Iraq develop these chemical & biological weapons on their own?
    A: No, the materials and technology were supplied by the US government, along with Britain and private corporations.

    11. Q: Did the US government condemn the Iraqi use of gas warfare against Iran?
    A: No

    12. Q: How many people did Saddam Hussein kill using gas in the Kurdish town of Halabja in 1988?
    A: 5,000

    13. Q: How many western countries condemned this action at the time?
    A: 0

    14. Q: How many gallons of agent Orange did America use in Vietnam?
    A: 17 million.

    15. Q: Are there any proven links between Iraq and September 11th terrorist attack?
    A: No

    16. Q: What is the estimated number of civilian casualties in the Gulf War?
    A: 35,000

    17. Q: How many casualties did the Iraqi military inflict on the western forces during the Gulf War?
    A: 0

    18. Q: How many retreating Iraqi soldiers were buried alive by U. S. tanks with ploughs mounted on the front?
    A: 6,000

    19. Q: How many tons of depleted uranium were left in Iraq and Kuwait after the Gulf War?
    A: 40 tons

    20. Q: What according to the UN was the increase in cancer rates in Iraq between 1991 and 1994?
    A: 700%

    21. Q: How much of Iraq’s military capacity did America claim it had destroyed in 1991?
    A: 80%

    22. Q: Is there any proof that Iraq plans to use its weapons for anything other than deterrence and self-defense?
    A: No

    23. Q: Does Iraq present more of a threat to world peace now than 10 years ago?
    A: No

    24. Q: How many civilian deaths has the Pentagon predicted in the event of an attack on Iraq in 2003? A: 10,000

    25. Q: What percentage of these will be children? A: Over 50%

    26. Q: How many years has the U.S. engaged in air strikes on Iraq? A: 11 years

    27. Q: Were the U.S and the UK at war with Iraq between December 1998 and September 1999?
    A: No

    28. Q: How many pounds of explosives were dropped on Iraq between December 1998 and September 1999?
    A: 20 million

    29. Q: How many years ago was UN Resolution 661 introduced, imposing strict sanctions on Iraq’s imports and exports?
    A: 12 years

    30. Q: What was the child death rate in Iraq in 1989 (per 1,000 births)?
    A: 38

    31. Q: What was the estimated child death rate in Iraq in 1999 (per 1,000 births)?
    A: 131 (that’s an increase of 345%)

    32. Q: How many Iraqis are estimated to have died by October 1999 as a result of UN sanctions?
    A: 1.5 million

    33. Q: How many Iraqi children are estimated to have died due to sanctions since 1997?
    A: 750,000

    34. Q: Did Saddam order the inspectors out of Iraq?
    A: No

    35. Q: How many inspections were there in November and December 1998?
    A:300

    36. Q: How many of these inspections had problems?
    A:5

    37. Q: Were the weapons inspectors allowed entry to the Ba’ath Party HQ?
    A: Yes

    38. Q: Who said that by December 1998, Iraq had in fact, been disarmed to a level unprecedented in modern history.
    A: Scott Ritter, UNSCOM chief.

    39. Q: In 1998 how much of Iraq’s post 1991 capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction did the UN weapons inspectors claim to have discovered and dismantled?
    A: 90%

    40. Q: Is Iraq willing to allow the weapons inspectors back in?
    A: Yes

    41. Q: How many UN resolutions did Israel violate by 1992?
    A: Over 65

    42. Q: How many UN resolutions on Israel did America veto between 1972 and 1990?
    A: 30+

    43. Q: How much does the U.S. fund Israel a year?
    A:$5 billion

    44. Q: How many countries are known to have nuclear weapons?
    A: 8

    45. Q: How many nuclear warheads has Iraq got?
    A: 0

    46. Q: How many nuclear warheads has US got?
    A: over 10,000

    47. Q: Which is the only country to use nuclear weapons?
    A: the US

    48. Q: How many nuclear warheads does Israel have?
    A: Over 400

    49. Q: Has Israel every allowed UN weapon inspections?
    A: No

    50. Q: What percentage of the Palestinian territories are controlled by Israeli settlements?
    A: 42%

    51. Q: Is Israel illegally occupying Palestinian land?
    A: Yes

    52. Q: Which country do you think poses the greatest threat to global peace: Iraq or the U.S.?
    A:????

    53. Q: Who said, “Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter”?
    A: Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr

    Members of Trinity are asked to think about these things and be prayerful as we sift through the “hype” being poured on by the George Bush-controlled media.

    Rev Jeremiah A Wright, Jr.

    War on Iraq IQ Test - written by: Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Pastor of Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, placed the following ‘War on Iraq IQ Test’ on the Trinity “Pastor’s Page” for Sunday, Feb. 23.

    http://tinyurl.com/ytjqs9

  15. 6th column

    BTW, it’s been pointed out to me that the church’s pastor capitalized the word black in his sermon, but not the word white.

    I wonder why?

    SG–This is an issue on which I fulminated for years (obviously with no success). It’s actually based on an absolute (and unsurprising) failure of logic. In the olden days (when I ran free on the range) the racial pairing was Caucasian/Negro. In the ’60s (bless ‘em!), when “persons of color” began dictating the Flavor of the Week in terms of what to call themselves, they opted first for “black.” Logically, then, the pairing would now be white/black. Mais non! Blacks decided to keep their capital letter while letting whitey languish on in his lower case. The success of the distortion, however, lies with the [white liberal] media which for decades dared not to remove that racial/racist disparity for fear that Negroes/blacks/Blacks/Afro-Americans/African Americans/Persons of Color would charge them with…racism.

  16. 1sttofight

    Of what value is a test when the person asking the questions does not know the correct answer?

  17. nodems

    41. Q: How many UN resolutions did Israel violate by 1992?
    A: Over 65

    42. Q: How many UN resolutions on Israel did America veto between 1972 and 1990?
    A: 30+

    43. Q: How much does the U.S. fund Israel a year?
    A:$5 billion
    ================
    The church seems to be anti-Semetic also

    I’m surprised they put God as #1 truthfully.

  18. nodems

    Are we surprised the Muslim OsamaObamaOrama goes to an anti-Semetic church?

  19. oki

    Return the test answer sheet with the notation: “Fact Citations Needed! Grade F!”

  20. BillK

    23. Q: Does Iraq present more of a threat to world peace now than 10 years ago?
    A: No

    Damn right, and all because of the U.S.

    Iraq won’t be sponsoring global terrorism, nor working to acquire nuclear weapons that can then be passed along to al Qaeda.

    Why? George H. W. Bush.

    So tell me how “Mission Accomplished” wasn’t accurate? I don’t recall “Sunnis and Shiites will hold hands and sing Kumbaya” being in the original mission statement for Iraq.

  21. jewelciappio

    I am white. No comment.

  22. 1sttofight

    Then jewel, you admit you are a racist?

  23. nodems

    I think that Jewel is saying that, as a white woman, she cannot understand the black man’s pain.

    It’s the people like this minister that is keeping the races separated…it is not the white man doing it.

    Who always pulls the race card? Blacks…not whites.

    Who always shows up in front of the camera to support blacks no matter what?
    Black people like Jesse Jackson and Charlie Rangel

    Who has a Black Caucus but would crap their pants if whites wanted a White Caucus.

    Today’s black person choses to separate themselves whenever they can. Don’t put this on the rest of us.

  24. drdobgyn

    This is the first time I have posted a response to a blog, because as a practicing physician I have more important things to do than sit around drinking coffee and talking shit about things that I don’t know about. However, after reading all this mis-information about Trinity United Church of Christ and the Rev. Dr. Jeremiah A Wright I couldn’t help myself.
    First, I am a member of Trinity United Church of Christ(TUCC) as are more than 10,000 other people. In fact it is the largest denomination in the United Church of Christ, a mainstream denomination. Rev. Wright earned his PhD from the University of Chicago and is considered by many as one of the greatest preachers and pastors in the USA. TUCC DOES NOT preach Black supeiority, keeping the races separated, or any of the bullshit some of the responders have written. Why does it make White people afraid when Blacks talk about the importance of supporting our community, taking responsibility for ones’ own actions, honoring our ancestors, not forgetting where we as a people come from, teaching our children that we as a people are decendents of a great people and that civilization began in Africa, long before Europeans did anything. Africans were travelling the globe while Europeans were still living in caves. TUCC stating that our disavowal of middleclassness means that just because I have succedded it is important to give back and support others who have not.TUCC stresses that it is important to tell OUR OWN story, because White people will fuck it up and not tell the truth which is what I have been reading the past couple of days.This church is not a cult no more than any Black church is a cult. Just because we as African-Americans worship differently from the majority does not make us deficient.
    Lastly, Cleopatra was born in Africa which would make her a woman of color just as Jesus was born in Africa and his skin was of bronze. If people are against Barack Obama because of his policy on Iraq, fine than let it be about him, but to make this about a church and the that churches’ committment to the Black community, a community which it serves is just some more swift boat bullshit being spewed forth by ignorant White people and uncle tom negros.

  25. SG

    Doctor, recognizing that your time is far more valuable than the rest of us good-for-nothing loafers, do please check out this link:

    Meet Barack Obama’s Pastor And “Spiritual Mentor” | Sweetness & Light
    http://www.sweetness-light.com.....ia-youtube

    Then explain to us how that is not the sermon of a hate-filled racist crazy man. A man who could give David Duke bigotry lessons.

    Presumably that sermon was delivered from the pulpit at your church. Do you believe that white men created AIDS? That the US is the number one killer in the world? Or any of the other charges Reverend Wright makes?

    Also, just as a thought experiment, replace the word “black” with the word “white” in all of your church’s material.

    Then ask yourself what chance a white man would have running for president if he belonged to a church that espoused those kind of sentiments. What party (apart from maybe the Aryan Nation) would ever allow such a person to speak for them, let alone be their standard bearer?

    Please forgive such a lowly person as myself for addressing your worthiness and taking you away from your work curing cancer and making the lame walk and the blind see.

    But until you address the actual points raised in this thread and those arising from Reverend Wright’s remarks, you are arguing from authority. And that doesn’t carry much weight around here.

  26. SG

    “Lastly, Cleopatra was born in Africa which would make her a woman of color just as Jesus was born in Africa and his skin was of bronze.”

    I guess you skipped genetics at med school.

    Teresa Heinz Kerry was born in Africa, is she a woman of color, too?

    The girl I lived with for a couple of years who was born and raised in Kenya, who was blond, blue-eyed with fish-belly white skin, was she also a woman of color?

    And what was that apartheid business all about, if everyone involved was perforce a person of color?

    And Bethlehem is now in Africa? Who knew?

    It is to laugh.

    (Though I am a little worried about your patients.)

  27. SG

    I guess I should have actually read your post “doctor” before I wasted my time responding as if you were a rational person. I’m sorry I wasted my time.

    “Africans were travelling the globe while Europeans were still living in caves…. TUCC stresses that it is important to tell OUR OWN story, because White people will fuck it up and not tell the truth which is what I have been reading the past couple of days.”

    You are proving the point of this thread and the other.

    You have been steeped in the craziest kind of racist fantasies. It has twisted your mind and estranged you from reality. You are clearly full of hate.

    It’s probably too late to suggest that you actually read some real history books. The help you need would more likely have to be more of a clinical nature at this point.

    But your post has proved the point of the original article much better than any of us do-nothings could have ever done.

  28. Voice of Reason

    Steve,

    I know your geography accounts for the timestamp of your posts. Look at his. This “pillar of the community”, “savior among peons”, “defender of the downtrodden”, was on this site at 2 o’clock in the morning on a weeknight his time. This is simply drunk dialing on the net by some asshat frontin’ like he’s a doctor. It is well known that those who pimp a title in their login, or rely on it in their posts to give them moral or intellectual authority in their arguments, typically aren’t even in the same ball park regarding who they are petending to be.. Kinda like perverts making fake Playboy photgrapher business cards to take nekkid pics of dipshit coeds. Judging from his writing ability if this guy/gal spent 5 minutes in college I’ll eat my hat. I only say this because were he truly an educated black man, like those that I know, he would be distancing himself as far from this type of crap instead of making feeble attempts to justify it. I don’t doubt for a second he is a member of TUCC…hence his venomous retort to those pointing out the “Inconvenient Truth” about the teachings of his “spiritual guru”. No I read a rambling, misinformed, defensive pile of obfiscation from a person pissed they got caught and doing everything they can to blow smoke up everyone’s ass to deflect attention. I hear a person who has no intention of assimilating into AMERICAN society. I hear a closet bigot who’s meeting of like minded individuals just got raided. I hear a close minded, ill-informed follower being led down a path he/she is perfectly willing to travel because he/she believes all that is being spoon fed to them because it is being spewed by another bigot who is perfectly happy to race bait and play the victim game for all it’s worth.

    You know, I see the Rodney King beatings, etc. that happen and while tragic…..they are few and far between. I can’t remember the last true instance of racism to hit the news. Now while there may be some assholes out there giving a job to a white guy instead of a black guy of equal or better qualifications….there are 100 times more instances of the complete opposite being true. Where is the outrage over the white lady who was denied admission into Michigan Law School because she was a few points below her black counterparts who got 20 points simply for the color of their skin. How much longer do I have to pay for something I had absolutely nothing to do with? I never owned a slave. My mom and dad didn’t either. Nor did my grandparents or great grandparents. None of the aforementioned people had anything to do with Jim Crow laws, the KKK, dogs and waterhoses, Bull Conner, Selma or any of the other tired ass old crap trotted out anytime black people want to lay some guilt in my lap. You want to know why black people have it so damned bad…..because you refuse to let go of the f*cking past and move the f*ck on. At what point in history will you cease to be a victim of a crime committed some 250+ years ago? It is practically impossible for blacks to be disciminated against because if there is even a whiff of a modicum of a possiblity…..the race pimps Jesse, rev Al and the like come screeching out of the woodwork and everybody starts himming and hawing and bing bang boom all goes their way. So is some idiot dropping a couple N-Bombs on a black man or woman now enough to equate to the struggles of the past? Enough to lock blacks into a time warp and return you to chains and master’s whip? If so…..don’t come crying to me…because for one you call each other worse names than any white person could get away with and two….come hang in my “hood”. If ANY word is that much of a hardship to you……you wouldn’t have lasted 5 minutes in the neighborhood I grew in where being called a name was the least of your worries.

    I doubt you’ll be back to reply…trolls rarely do.
    VoR

  29. drdobgyn

    SG let me respond to your statements in a why that your confused mind can actully understand.
    1. White men created AIDS. I don’t not believe that AIDS was a man made virus. Is it possible yes, but is it likely no.
    2. US is the # 1 killer in the world. If you look it it from the actual killing of civillians by milatarty action , both intended and uninteded victums and those peopke killed by weapons that we have sold and or given i.e. Sadaam milatary one could argue that the no counry has killed more people the the US globally. Less we not forget dropping 2 nuclear weapons.
    3. I would agree with you that if a majority canidate belonged to a church that had those values written with the word white instead of Black he would have serious problems, but I would think that his church was not founded during a time when Blacks universally were in a mind set of self hate, dependance on governemt, being irresponsible as men in regards to taking care of our families, the importance of education not being a priority in that community, understanding that we as a people should support individuals who share our ideas and those things that are important to our community and having to educate our children that there is more to them than just being descended from slaves and that we should be proud of our ancestors just as everyother ethnic group celebrates their own particular etnicity i.e. St. Patricks Day, Pulaski Day, Columbus Day, Cinco De Mayo just to name a few that are celebrated in Chicago. Traditionally many other ethnic groups did not have to deal with this type of self hate and decreased self worth, which is why when TUCC started in the late 60’s, a time in which the Black empowering movement and the civil rights stuggles were in the forefront of our community. Frankly, the majority didn’t need a White value system because they had families with 2 parents who encouraged hard work and discipline, which was something that was definityly missing in the Black community for many years and it is because of that the members of TUCC developed our Black Value System which seeks to focus our young people in bettering themselves through education, prayer and disipline. What our church seeks to do should be applauded not torn down and taken out of context.You should want youg educated disiplined people of color working to make this country and communities better.
    Yes I would agree that there are times when Pastor Wright’s sermons contain language that can make people unconfortable, but is he telling the truth. He says things from the pulpit that others may not ,but it doesn’t mean that its not true.
    Lastly , I didn’t skip genetics and school and I also know how to read a map.
    Would you agree that during the time of Cleopatras reign 69 BC in Egypt, which is located on the continent of Africa, that it would be highly unlikely that she would have been European, since at that time the majority of Europe was in the dark ages.I never said that she was Black but she is a woman of color just as everyone else born on the continent at that time was. It is impossible for Jesus and anyother figure in the Bible to be anything else but a person of color or is that too much truth for you? Something else that is spoken about in Trinity is telling your OWN story. You and others like you would think that Jesus has blonde hair and blue eyes as did all of his diciples, well SG during that time that would have been impossible.So who living life in a fantasy? Your comment on aparthied just really shows how incredibly ignorant you are. Aparthied was a system placed on people of color by a white raciest South African government. You can’t be that stupid.
    I hope that this has given you the information that you were looking for.
    We are pro-Black not anti anything.We are no different from anyother ethnic community that celebrates their heritage. Just as the Jewish community celebrates their culture and works to improve their community and Asian community just to name a few.
    By the way I’m a Ob/Gyn

  30. drdobgyn

    VoR
    I was up because I was waiting on a delivery, but unlike you I have to go to work at my private practice. I don’t need to make shit up, but I will come back this evening to respond. That would be Dr. Troll to you you inbred ignorant piece of shit.

  31. Voice of Reason

    Still waiting on that delivery Dr. Troll or simply full of crap? Why in the world would a man of your obvious superiority find the need to “come back this evening to repond” to an “inbred ignorant piece of shit” like little ole me? Drop the rock Dr. T…….all that hate and venom is weighing heavy on you.

    By the way all those tenants………..” mind set of self hate, dependance on governemt, being irresponsible as men in regards to taking care of our families, the importance of education not being a priority in that community, understanding that we as a people should support individuals who share our ideas and those things that are important to our community and having to educate our children that there is more to them than just being descended from slaves and that we should be proud of our ancestors”……….are really panning out for you folks well. How long ago was this church founded and this “checklist” developed? Dr. T, I hope you deliver babies better than you do at making these few simple ideals come to fruition. Otherwise low black birthrates will be another thing my family and I will get blamed for. Becasue if you folks as a race are doing well on these few simplistic standards I’ll chow down on that aforementioned chapeau.

    But I guess your self hate, dependance on the govt. et. al. are my fault too…..And to think…..all because some BLACK Africans sold some other BLACK Africans to some dirtbags to be brought to America to be mistreated by some long dead dudes waaaay back when. Astonishing.
    VoR

  32. Sharps Rifle

    “…and the long night of racism.”

    So, let me get this straight, by preaching racism they oppose racism? By hating non-blacks they are not racist how?

    The more I learn about Obama the more he comes off as just another Al Sharpton/Jesse Jackson/Charles Barron race-pimp but with a bigger vocabulary and a smoother voice. Maybe the Dems are just a bunch of masochists who get some kind of rush out of backing creeps like these, but I’m not in the least interested in taking part in how they get their jollies.

    Michael Steele for President and Lynn Swann for VP!!!!

  33. euroconservative

    I’m going to descend to the “learned” “doctor’s” level and tell you Dr Troll that you are full of SH*T. First of all, as I understand (having taken the time to read up on the subject) AIDS was first detected in the Congo circa the 1960s - it must have been down to all those pesky white men running around loose in the jungle. It spread to the rest of the world after the Kinshasa highway created a direct trading route to the west of the continent.

    I spent a few wonderful weeks in Zimbabwe about 6 years ago (before Mugabe destroyed it) - a country where 90% of deaths are AIDS related. This is truly a country of the walking dead. It was scary to see these people with their yellowed skin, reddened eyes and gaunt frames just walking around waiting to die. Yet, to use a phrase I haven’t heard in a while, these people f*cked like rabbits. There was no concept of self control and abstinence. I don’t see too many whites in Zimbabwe. At the time I was told that less than 1% of the population was white (and this was before Mugabe’s cull). And the local white people would not touch the blacks with a barge pole. So don’t tell me the white man is responsible for AIDS.

    “Dr” you are just feeding into the paranoid victim mentality that hard working whites are sick and tired of. If you were as educated as you claim to be, why would you give a crap about what so called “ignorant” people say.

    BTW - you are typical of the liberal victim - a violent knee jerk reaction against anyone who disagrees with you. How come the Swift Boatmen were spouting bullsh*t? I would bet that you swallowed the crap spewed by Dan Rather about George Bush? So, doctor, what is the criteria for truth v bullshit. Is is down to Republican v Democrat????

  34. CKO1986

    I’ll bet ten-to-one this “doctor” got his medical degree from a mail-order school.

  35. SG

    “Michael Steele for President and Lynn Swann for VP!!!!”

    They would get my vote.

  36. SG

    “Yes I would agree that there are times when Pastor Wright’s sermons contain language that can make people unconfortable, but is he telling the truth.”

    Here again is my transcription of Rev. Wright’s remarks:

    God Has Got To Be Sick Of This Shit!

    [Joined in progress] … Justice is ignored. When women are treated like, or are permitted by this society to be called publicly “bitches,” justice is ignored.

    And on that note, on that note, let me paraphrase Dr. Anthony Campolo, one of the nation’s greatest preachers.

    He said something to this effect.

    Fact number one: we’ve got more black men in prison than there are in college.

    Racism is alive and well. Racism is the American way.

    Racism is how this country was founded, and how this country is still run.

    No black man can ever be President. I don’t care how hard you run Jesse.

    No black woman will ever be considered for anything outside of what she can give with her body.

    Fact number three: America is still the number one killer in the world.

    We invaded Grenada for no other reason than to get Maurice Bishop. We destroyed Panama because Noriega would no longer dance to our tune anymore.

    We are deeply involved in the importing of drugs, the exporting of guns and the training professional killers.

    We bombed Cambodia, Iraq and Nicaragua, killing women and children, while trying to turn public opinion against Castro and Qaddafi.

    Fact number four: we put Mandela in prison and supported apartheid the whole 27 years he was there.

    We believe in white supremacy and black inferiority. And believe it more than we believe in God.

    Fact number five: we supported Zionism shamelessly while ignoring the Palestinians, and branding anybody who spoke out against it as being anti-Semitic.

    Fact number six: we conducted radiation experiments on our own people. You’re just finding out about that. We care nothing about human life, if the end justifies the means.

    Fact number seven: we do not care if poor black and brown children cannot read and kill each other senselessly. We abandoned the cities back in the sixties when the riots started, and it really doesn’t matter what those nnn… [niggers] “natives” do to each other.

    We gave up on them and public education for poor people who live in the projects. We with VCRs, DVDs, CDs and portable phones have more homeless than any nation in the world.

    Fact number eight: we started the AIDS virus, and now that it is out of control we still put more money in the military than in medicine. More money in hate than humanitarian concerns.

    Everybody does not have access to health care. I don’t care what the rich white boys in the Senate say.

    [Garbled] listen up. If you are poor black and elderly — forget it.

    Fact number nine: we only able to maintain our level of living by making sure the Third World people live in grinding poverty.

    Fact number ten: we are selfish, self-centered ego egotists, who are arrogant and ignorant.

    We pray at church and do not try to make the kingdom that Jesus talked about a reality.

    And, and, and… in light of these in fact God has got to be sick of this shit!

    If you believe any of Reverend Wright’s “facts” are true, then you are truly hopeless.

  37. wardmama4

    It hurts when your racist, hateful reality goes public doesn’t it - ‘doctor’?

    One can extoll their ancestry and heritage without _______-Americanizing themselves. My father told grand stories about where his ancestors came from - never, ever saw the place but the family stories were point on. I went in 1981, caused a stir among the locals - look the family of immigrant to America came home! And he did not run around calling himself a German-American. Nor did he encourage us to extoll Germany over America or our ancestry over America.

    You want to be African and extoll Africa - go there, do it there. This is America not Africa. You are American-African not the other way around, or you are not American.

    You must have read African Genesis - I did too when I was 18, whoop-di-do. Then I read the Bible, the Koran, the Vedas and the Torah. . . because to understand one must study. To be racist, closeminded, bigotted, and suspicious of anyone not them, is to only concentrate on self and not even bother to read about anyone else or other ideas and beliefs.

    So how does TUCoC deal with we are all the Children of God, brothers and sisters - with such emphasis on color, community, and self. That is not Christian, not biblical, not Godly in any sense of the words - just like Islam and that fake church Westboro Baptist Church.

    Hate is hate - it just isn’t colorblind like true Godly belief, nor will it ever be.

  38. zoomie

    “It is impossible for Jesus and anyother figure in the Bible to be anything else but a person of color or is that too much truth for you? Something else that is spoken about in Trinity is telling your OWN story. You and others like you would think that Jesus has blonde hair and blue eyes as did all of his diciples, well SG during that time that would have been impossible.”

    So Jewish people are “people of color” now? Who knew???!!!

  39. SG

    The scary thing is, the man really is a doctor, an oby-gyn, just as he says.

  40. wardmama4

    zoomie - here’s a tidbit that the blacks won’t tell you - the Jewish people started the NAACP.

    Just like the arabs are descendents of Abraham. . .[Genesis 16:11-12]

    We are all brothers and sisters under the skin - it is just that some of us remember it and live it and some of us deny it and hide it.

  41. zoomie

    I also find it troubling that he’s an ob-gyn doc…..imagine someone this filled with racial hatred bringing babies into the world. The first human hand to touch a sweet innocent baby, not a pretty thought!! Read through a snippet of the pastor’s sermon, couldn’t stomach all of it. What would Jesus do? Maybe wash his preacher’s mouth out with soap for a start…

    Oh, btw “Doc”, I’m not blond haired or blue eyed. Does that make me a “person of color”??? Would a white girl like me be welcome in your church that professes to follow the teaching of my Lord and Savior? Just askin……

  42. kelsie25

    Doctor,

    How does calling anyone “uncle tom negros” contribute to your commitment to the Black community? I assume you’re using that derogatory term, which I as a White person would never use, to refer to Black people whose opinions you do not like.

  43. SG

    “Would you agree that during the time of Cleopatras reign 69 BC in Egypt, which is located on the continent of Africa, that it would be highly unlikely that she would have been European, since at that time the majority of Europe was in the dark ages.”

    Man, you are seriously confused about history. Start with Wikipedia:

    Cleopatra VII

    Cleopatra was a direct descendant of Alexander’s general, Ptolemy I Soter, son of Arsinoe and Lacus, both of Macedon. A Greek by language and culture, Cleopatra is reputed to have been the first member of her family in their 300-year reign in Egypt to have learned the Egyptian language.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleopatra

    Europe in 69 BC was at the height of what we call the Golden Age Of The Roman Republic. And Greece was still enjoying the twilight of its own many centuries old Golden Age.

    But whether Europeans were living in caves or not seems somewhat moot to the discussion.

    By the way, Cleopatra’s relationships first with Julius Caesar and then with Mark Anthony got a lot of press in their day.

    If she had been black, someone would have noticed and mentioned the fact.

  44. drdobgyn

    To all my new friends,
    First let me apologize for the name calling that is inappropriate. As many are found of saying I may not agree with you, but that does not give me the right to call you out of your name.

    My name is Dr. Harris not Dr. T or Troll first off just to be clear. I graduated with honors and I received my training in the midwest, so I didn’t get my degree from a mail order mill.
    To my friend VoR, I don’t blame the government for anything. I believe that people are responsible for whatever plight that they find themselves in. It is not the fault of the government that education is not as important as it should be in the Black community. It is not the fault of the government that we as Blacks have more single mothers than any other group. Which is why, we as succefful members at Trinity try to show our youth that with hard work, determination, dicipline and committment to excellence that anything is possible. There thousands of successful profesionals that attend Trinity who put that time in to help our youth to succeed.There are far to many young men of color in prison. It’s a fact and white people and the government have nothing to do with that sad fact.

    Euroconservitive, I agreed that AIDS was NOT a man made virus. Yes I would agree with you taught sexual promiscurity is at the heart of AIDS in Africa as well as India.Education is part of prevention.

    Wardmama, just because we,TUCC, choose to extole the virtues of our ancestors should have no bearing on you and how you choose to celebrate your familys origin. As we at Trinity are fond of saying .”different does not mean dificient. Yes I am of African descent and I have been there but I am an American first. So by your logic is it racist for people of Italian descent to describe themslves as Italian-American as some do? Of for Polish Americans to describe themselves as Polish -Americans. Should they also go back to their counties of origin?

    Zoomie, yes you would be welcome to attend services and join if the spirit took you there. We have many white visitors who come to our church. All are welcome.

    Are there people at Trinity who do not like white people? Yes. Are there people who have no opinion on the race of others yes. This church is just like anyother. I’m sure there people where you worship who don’t like Black people. That does not make your church a racist hate filled collection of people.

    Peace to you all

  45. Voice of Reason

    More to that point……Cleo was born about 7 centuries too late for the Greek Dark Ages there Doc. And since she died in 30 BC she was about 500 years too early for the European Dark Ages. With the Greek Dark Ages being from approximately 1100 BC to approximately 750 BC and Cleo not even being born until 69 BC…… and the European or “England’s” Dark Ages not beginning until about 476 AD…..I am having trouble putting much stock in the entire rest of your screed. I won’t even begin to get into why either were called Dark Ages….but suffice it to say neither involved caves. So don’t be just another big mouthed lib….full of discourse but devoid of knowledge. Around here there are people waaaaay too savy fully capable of handing you your ill informed ass. Even an “inbred ignorant piece of shit” like little ole me.

    I got to say…..love-30…but it’s still your serve.
    VoR

  46. sheehanjihad

    This “doctor” is acting like a man caught with a young boy….justification is moot under the circumstances. I will answer all of his charges in a more simple manner, because unlike him, I am off to WORK at 4am eastern, not lollygaggin around waiting for the welfare check to show up soze I can make the rent and buy some more colt 45. But, before I do, and this is one of those months where work takes me from posting, but I was proud of all of “our guys”…SG in particular….for handing the good doctor his racist ass. As long as people like him believe people like the good reverend Hate….well of course the huge profits to be made from race baiting will be continued. Actually, I am tired of it. Outlaw this, outlaw that, but forget to teach children how to act in the first place. Legislate human behavior? Aint gonna happen, and God knows how many times it’s been tried…and miserably failed.

  47. SG

    Thanks for the kind words, SJ.

    I hope you don’t mind that I removed a couple of sentences from your last post. I suspect you posted them before you saw the last comments from the doctor. Or maybe you did, and they didn’t matter to you. I can understand that, too.

    But the gentleman does seem to be trying to be more civil now, and I think we should reciprocate as much as possible.

    I’m always happy to see some (even any) progress made towards meeting of minds, rather than just angry standoffs. I would guess we all are that way.

    And I realize I probably helped set the tone as much as anybody.

    Who knows, this could turn out to be a productive conversation. Stranger things have happened before.

  48. zoomie

    You know, Doc, I appreciate that you apologized for the name calling and the invitation to your church. But, we both know I would be as “welcome” there as something else in a church. You conceded this point to SG: “I would agree with you that if a majority canidate belonged to a church that had those values written with the word white instead of Black he would have serious problems, but” Then you followed it up with some reason that I couldn’t begin to follow and made no sense whatsoever. Why the “but”??? Equality does not mean that your side gets a pass because or but. Equal, not better than. My husband and I have really tried to raise our two sons to be color blind. We’re military and truly have friends from all walks of life; different nationalities, races, religions, etc. People are people, until they prove otherwise. It’s hard to be colorblind, when race is shoved in our face everyday. I think it’s admirable that your church IS tackling issues such as children born to families in poverty and out of wedlock are more likely to continue on in that cycle. More churches should preach it. What I don’t find admirable is the implied reasoning that “whitey” is to blame for it. Would you feel comfortable in my church if we advertised that we were “unashamedly white”? No, you would wonder what our agenda was and question our Christian ethic, rightfully so, I might add. We were told that the greatest commandment was to love the Lord God with all our heart, soul and understanding and our neighbor as we love ourselves. I never saw anything in my Bible that said “only if they are black, white, etc.”. You can dialogue with the people at this site if you are honest and willing to be fair.

  49. drdobgyn

    SG, I welcome the conversation in a civil manner. As I said insulting each other and placing labels on each other benifits nobody and I am as guilty of that as anyone.

    SJ you don’t know anything about me so to accuse me of sitting around waiting for a welfare check so that I can pay rent and get some more Colt 45 just shows me and everyone else who the real racist is in this discussion. I am not trying to justify anything because I don’t need to, I do however think that it is important to find out the truth on your own through research, ie VoR & SG’s comments on Cleopatra or through your own experience.

    You and I agree that there are segments of both populations that need to teach their children how to act. You would agree that there are wild children out there both Black and White. I also agree that you cannot legislate behavior. People need to take reponsibility for thier actions. For far to long a segment of the Black population has not taken responsibility for thier actions and have sought to blame others ie government ,white people etc for what has happened to them.

    I am 44 years old and I am the first in my family to finish college and go to graduate school. This happened because my parents, I came from a 2 parent family, instilled in me the importance of education. I had NO CHOICE but to go to college, there was no other option.I grew up in a time when it was un-cool to be smart or to talk proper english, I was trying to be white. No I was trying to be a physician. Trinity Church and the values that we talk about and try to follow are there to instill pride in a generation of youg people who only want to play basketball or MC. Far too few inspire to be teachers, physicians, accountants etc.

    The Black Value system has nothing to do with white people and everything to do with trying to instill pride in a generation of young Black men and women. We as Black people should not wait on others to show us how to act in todays society. There are too many single mothers out their trying to teach their son how to be a man. Only a man can show a boy what it is to be a man. Which is why Trinity has ministries whose sole purpose is to mentor our youth so as to not get caught up in the bullshit of their surroundings.

    SG, VoR you can’t do that in my community anymore than I can come to your community and mentor your youth. I am sure that churches in your area are out their doing just that today and doing it well. I am sure that if either of you have children that you take their personal growth and develpoment very seriously. I am sure that there is no shortage of successful white men who make themselves available for youths in your community, but the same cannot be said in the Black community, which is where the disavowl of middleclassness comes from.

    It means life is not about acquiring material possessions at the expense of others. It is important to give back to ones community so as to uplift those who are not there yet.It doesn’t mean handout either. As the saying goes ,give a man a fish he eats for a day teach him to fish he eat for a life time. We are trying to teach our youth to be self reliant and ever vigilent in their quest to succeed.

    But at the same time we need to recognize that racism does exist and you must be able to deal with it in a constructive way.These are not radical sentements but rather conservitive in nature. Personal responsibility, hard work ,education, dicipline, family and the church. These are just some of the things that we as members of Trinity Church believe in and try to adhere to a daily basis. In the words of Public Enemy,”Don’t Believe The Hype”

    Just so you know SJ I have my own extreamly successful medical practice and I live on the 12th fairway in a 4000sq ft 5 bdr,4bth home with swimming pool,pool house with a 3 car garage which has a Benz S500, BMW 645ci and Range Rover. Didn’t want to go there but you took me there SJ.

  50. SG

    Dr, if you would put in some paragraph breaks, your comments would be easier to read. I will add some, since I can edit your posts.

    But in the future, just hit a couple of carriage returns (enter key) now and then. You don’t need to do any coding or anything. The software will take care of it.

  51. drdobgyn

    Zoomie I appreciate your comments but there are a couple of things I would disagree with on. First, you would be welcomed to our church. It is very common to see a bus of white youths to come vist out church, with the most likely reason being that TUCC is the largest church in the entire denomination. I would disagree with your assertion that we “blame whitey” for the state of the Black community. White people have nothing to do with it as far as I am concerned.

    No White person, since the 60’s, has kept a Black child from getting an education. We at TUCC, especially Pastor Wright speak of pride in oneself and he keeps preaching that you are a child of God and God doesn’t make mistakes. We all have the God givin ability to succeed we just have to take advantage of the opportunities that we are all given. You said something that in a way just proves my point. You said you and your husband have tried to teach your sons to be color blind and also about the greatest commandment which ended in as you love yourself.

    The interesting thing her Zoomie is that there are far too many single family homes and far too many absent and/or uninvolved fathers in the Black community. It is because of that that the Black church, in a lot of cases has to take on the additional role as a father figure. I would guess the the total membership of the majority of Black churches is at least 65% women with a majority being the head of the household. Rev. Wright frequently preaches that anybody can make a baby, but it takes a real man to raise a child.You asked about the motto Unashamadly Black and Unapologetially Christian.

    We as a congragation embrace our heritrage just as many other ethnic groups do in the course of a worship service. We believe that that God so loved the world that he gave his son for our sins. We believe in the importance of having a personal relationship with the Lord. God made everything and ALL people and as Rev Wright says God doesn’t make mistakes. Who are we to question God?

    So to say that we don’t like/hate white people would go against that. What we are saying is that as Black people we have nothing to be ashamed about.We are children of God and we need to love ourselves as such, which unfortunatly is lacking in segments of the Black community. Its hard to love someone else when you don’t love yourself.

    Thats what we are talking about. Its not love Black people only, because just because someone is your color does not make them your kind, and those who are not your color just may be on your side. Love to keep going but I have a C-Section to do at 7.

  52. drdobgyn

    I’m in central time and thanks SG

  53. SG

    Not to address your last posts directly, Dr, but some of your comments have reminded me of this. And that is, when Minister Farrakhan first came on the national scene some of the first people to embrace him were conservatives. They were tickled pink that he was seeking to instill pride and discipline and more of a sense of responsibility in blacks. And of course we could all use more of all of those values.

    But Mr. Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam in general went very wrong along the way was using various religious-like myths and weird racist fantasies to re-write history in a preposterous way. And, as you know, they did teach (and maybe still do teach) true racial separatism.

    So all of the good that might have come out of the NOI was poisoned by the disregard for truth and the outright racial hatred. And that is too bad.

    I actually think a lot of conservatives would readily accept a lot of what Malcolm X said, once he left the NOI and began to realize that racism and racial separatism were vicious doctrines. His outlook in his final years reads very sensible, even downright conservative, to me.

    And by bringing all of this up, I don’t mean to claim that the Trinity Church or Reverend Wright are quite as far out there as the NOI. But you have see that there are a lot of disturbing similarities. Especially with Rev. Wright.

    To put it another way, if the implicit and explicit racism were to be removed from some of the church’s tenets, and if Mr. Wright would stick to reality rather than fomenting hate based on outright and dangerous lies. I don’t see how any of us would have any problem whatsoever with a church that is trying to help its flock improve their lives. More churches should be doing that. And certainly black churches have been falling down on the job. But of course so have white churches.

  54. zoomie

    DrD, I appreciate you addressing me, it’s easier to talk with someone when emotions are not running hot and in your last few posts, you make your points and I do understand where you’re coming from. The issue of race would move a lot closer to being resolved if people would stop pointing the finger and worrying about what is the right thing to say or do. I have a few African American friends that I can talk frankly with about race, but not as many as I would like. In too many cases, I’m running the conversation thru preview wondering if I’m going to say anything offensive. The last thing I want is an us against them mentality and too often that seems to be the case. I think a lot of us want things to change, but unfortunately, there are many that don’t.

  55. 1sttofight

    If someone wants to be offended, it really does not matter what you say to them because they will find something to hang their offense on.
    I offend my friends all the time and they offend me too, So What?
    That is called life and just get on with it.
    I don’t want to be around anyone who I am afraid of offending because guess what, They will be.
    A very dear friend of mine for years and I used to sit around drinking and just for the hell of it would see who could offend the other the most. BTW, He was and still is BLACK and is still a very good friend.

  56. SG

    “I live on the 12th fairway in a 4000sq ft 5 bdr,4bth home with swimming pool,pool house with a 3 car garage which has a Benz S500, BMW 645ci and Range Rover.”

    I hope you are buying carbon offsets. And I’m glad you didn’t follow your church’s admonition to spurn the pursuit of “middle class” values.

    I also hope that your church promotes your (materialistic) success to your congregation. Or rather, how relatively easy it is to succeed if you simply put in a little effort.

    And that doesn’t mean acting white. Or being “middle class.”

  57. DEZ

    I Have been keeping an eye on this thread, Yes quietly!
    Doc can I call ya Doc,
    You seem to be rational and I welcome you to the site, And thank you for apologizing for the name calling.
    This group can be hard core and that includes me, Maybe especially me.
    For the most part I see two types of people.
    The first type tries to get ahead with honest work.
    Type two tries to get by without working, I really don’t like type two.
    If your church is teaching self reliance, I salute them.
    But I can honestly say that I have never been to a church that ever mentioned the color of a mans skin,
    I could care less what color Skin Jesus wore, He came to earth for all humanity.
    All races should be taught the same values, Right from wrong, I just do not see it as a color issue.

  58. sheehanjihad

    the “doc” is having the time of his life., finally, someone pays attention to him….I dont know if he lives in his palace, or a double wide in bayonne…..could care less. I enjoyed the reparte, but I have to get up early. To work. If he is still here later tomorrow evening, I will say something appropriate to SJ….but otherwise, he is like a worn out CD in a collection. Play only when ya have to. Sorry doc, but I got other things to do.

  59. drdobgyn

    SG fortunatly I now live in Texas and my utility bills are much more reasonable. Being successful doesn’t mean that one cannot enjoy finer things. That thing about the material stuff was ment for the person who insinuated that I was on welfare and drinking 40’s of colt 45. Remeber SG its not that you spurn the trappings of being middle class it is that you make every effort to help up-lift others which I embrace.I mentor when able, I speak to urban high schools, I sponsor teams I contribute to my church. I’ve been blessed with much so I try to give much, again part of disavowing middleclassness. Make your money but don’t forget those in need.

    It would suprise you but our service does not get into skin color as I said before Rev Wright makes a point that going along with someone just because they may look like you doesn’t always benefit you as a person. People need to realize that the Black church holds a lot of significance in the Black community probably more so than other communities. Not to say that majority churchs are not important, because they are, but the Black church has been at the forefront for change for many Black people. We are a Black church that serves the needs of the community in which the church is located which is the southside of Chicago. There are no other ethnic groups living in that general area.

    If you want to see a worship service go to http://www.streamingfaith.com and see for yourself. Don’t trust the rantings and misinformation of others. I believe that you will be pleasently surprised. Services are at 7:30,11:00 and 6:00 pm cst. I have been a member for over 20 years, I’ve been married by Rev Wright, my children were christened by him and he euologized my mother and sister at TUCC. So you can just imagine how I felt to hear all the stuff being said by others about my church and my pastor.

  60. drdobgyn

    SJ you are really trying my patience. I know its hard being ignorant and uninformed but try and keep up if you can, because adults are talking and you may learn something. Are you on the grill tomorrow or are you at the take out window again?

  61. sheehanjihad

    Keep it up doc….I was being kind.

  62. sheehanjihad

    I have delt with psuedo christians such as yourself before. I expected no less, and you gave as such. Insulting as you attempt to be, you mistakenly believe that somehow, what you say has meaning, or merit, or could even be true. It doesnt matter if you patience is being tried. Your patient’s health is too. You have serious issues, and need to look in the mirror before you cast any more stones. Christian my ass.

  63. 1sttofight

    I have a question for the Good Doctor. Since you live in Texas and your church is in Chicago, Do you drive there each week or do you pull the old Gulfstream IV out of the 15 car garage?

  64. drdobgyn

    SG I understand your point about NOI, but believe me we do not advocate the separation of the races, we do not call white people blue eyed devils or Mr Charlie.
    I would agree that there are times when Rev Wright takes things to a level which I am not comfortable and I would suggest that there are other members of the church that feel the same way, but the beauty of it is that its not an all or nothing thing. I take what pertains to me in his sermons. I don’t but into everthing that he says but you must admit that there are some troubling truths to what he has said. For example
    1. More Black men in prison than in college. Its true stats don’t lie.
    2.Racism is still present in this country, maybe not like it was in the 60’s but its still hear i.e. mortgage lending, glass ceilings etc.
    3. This country was founded on racism. 300 years of slavery plus Jim Crow laws in the south need I say more?
    4. America is the number 1 killer. Thats technically true between indirect deaths from providing weapons and individuals killed by us both civillians and milatary
    5.This government supported aparthied and it was only after intense public pressure did this country come out against the South African government.
    6. We,Black people, believe in White superiority and Black inferiority. That is true. There are people who believe that there is nothing that a Black man can do that a White man can’t do better. There was a saying in the south that a White mans ice was colder than a Black man’s. Again this is about self hate.
    7. America’s support of Isreal is unending, but what about the people whose land was taken to form the state of Isreal?
    8. We conduct radiation experiments of our citizens. I don’t know about that but I do know of the Tuskeegee experiment.
    9. We don’t care if Black or brown kids kill each other once the cities were abandoned after the riots in the 60’s. I trained in Detroit Mi and I can say for a fact that for a major city downtown Detroit was a ghost town, things have improved but in the 90’s it was bad.I don’t believe its the governments duty to keep kids from killing each other it is us as parents that should do that.
    10. We started AIDS. Okay I have a problem with that one. I would agree that more needs to be spent on research for a cure. I would also agree that adequate health care is not available to all as it should be.
    11. We are self centered egotist. Again speaking in regards to the Black church I’ve seen people praying one minute than cussing someone out for cutting them off in the parking lot. So he has a point.

  65. drdobgyn

    1sttofight until I found a church home where I live now I would watch the web cast each Sunday. I have lived in Texas for 5 years. I now attend church in Texas.

  66. drdobgyn

    SJ so was I. In regards to my patients are in excellent hands. What stones are you referring to? Did I hit a little too close to home? As far as my points are concerned I wasn’t talking to you. I was having an adult discussion with SG and the other grown ups. So why don’t you finish your GED workbook so you can go to bed since you have to get up in the morning at 4:00 am est.

  67. retire05

    Dr. Harris, I think you are indicitive of educated black Americans. You are reaping the benefits of a nation that has grown and strove to obtain equality for all, no matter their color. But no matter what you say, I have a problem with your minister.
    To extoll ‘black’ values is racist, no matter what knife you cut it with. If you would consider a chuch that extolled ‘white’ values as racist, which it would be, you have to accept that it is also racist on the part of your minister to do what he does.
    OK, so you say you are trying to lift up out of the gutter those of your race who do not assume responsibility for their children, those who use drugs and alcohol as a way of life, those who think that getting an education is acting ‘white’. But I suggest that it would be better to replace the word ‘black’ with the word ‘Christian’. The word ‘Christian’ is all inclusive. Black, White, Asian, American Indian. And as I would expect my church to do, I would expect you, as Christians, to lift up anyone of ANY color to make their lives better and to procure a future for their children. For your minister to tout that he wants to do this for the black community only, is racist.

    Another problem I have is with esteem that your minister seems to hold for W.E.B. DuBois. Are you even aware of that?

    If you really want to erase the color line, you must eliminate those who draw that line. No where on your church’s site have I seen anything denouncing those like Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Louis Farrakhan or any of the other many racist who have lined their pockets and fattened their bank accounts by keeping racism alive. No where on your church’s website did I read anything about Dr. Bill Cosby who is saying “be responsible for yourself and don’t blame anyone else for your own failures”.

    I find no honor in saying that you are just trying to help the ‘black’ community. I find honor in helping those of any color.

    You say that you are embrassing your heritage. Sorry, I don’t buy that. Name me one church you have ever been in that places such importance on the congregation’s heritage. I have ethnic roots, but my heritage is American. I am not a hyphenated anything. I am an American and sorry, unless you were born in Africa and migrated to the United States, you are NOT African American, you are just a plain old American. And I can promise you, you will never find a church that advocates the values of Italian-Americans, Polish American or Irish Americans. Those of European heritage do not hyphenate themselves. Black Americans are the only ones that do this as a matter of practice. Ethnicity belongs in a restraurant, not in a church.

    As long as there are chuches such as TUCC, there will always be racial divide. It is unfortunate that your years of education did not teach you that.

  68. drdobgyn

    Retire good to diologe with you. Where do you see that Dr. Wright only wants ONLY wants to make the lives better for only Black children? Would you agree that a church’s primary responsibility is to the community that it serves? The community where Trinity is located is 99% Black. So where should the church focus it efforts initially. TUCC gives financial support to many churches in the US and world wide.

    Please explain the W.E. B. Dubois comment. I’m not sure what you mean by that.

    Ths church web site is not about extolling comments by others. Did you happen to look at all the ministries offerred at the church or did you just focus on the Black Value System?

    Why does it bother you and others for menbers of the Black community to embrace their heritage? How do I effect you by celebrating my heritage? Who are you to label me? I could refer to myself as anything that I want and again it doesn’t effect you or your family. What other churchs do in regards to celebrating thier etnicity is the business of that church and its congragants and nobody else.

    I find it troubling that so many people are so upset that a church strives to improve the lives of its members and community. Its funny that when Black people begin standing up for themselves and asserting their themselves White people get nervous. Why is that?

  69. SG

    “I would agree that there are times when Rev Wright takes things to a level which I am not comfortable and I would suggest that there are other members of the church that feel the same way…”

    But Barack Obama calls Wright his “spiritual mentor” and says he was his inspiration for getting into politics in the first place.

    You can read about at the other link:

    Meet Barack Obama’s Pastor And “Spiritual Mentor” | Sweetness & Light
    http://www.sweetness-light.com.....ia-youtube

    And that was the point behind both of these threads on Mr. Obama.

  70. SG

    1. More Black men in prison than in college. Its true stats don’t lie.

    That might be true. But it is misleading. It’s not true of college-aged men, for instance. But only taking the whole black male population:

    More Brothers in Prison Than In College? - Global Black News (African American News)
    http://www.globalblacknews.com/Jail.html

    More importantly, what is the point? Who’s fault is that?

    2.Racism is still present in this country, maybe not like it was in the 60’s but its still hear i.e. mortgage lending, glass ceilings etc.

    The US is probably one of the least racist countries on the planet. If you don’t believe me, try duplicating your career in another country where you are a racial minority. You would not have a fraction of your material rewards.

    3. This country was founded on racism. 300 years of slavery plus Jim Crow laws in the south need I say more?

    Not quite true. The US, along with the UK, led the fight in ridding the world of slavery — which still exists in Africa and regions you seem to call Africa.

    And the US fought its bloodiest war to end slavery.

    4. America is the number 1 killer. Thats technically true between indirect deaths from providing weapons and individuals killed by us both civillians and milatary

    That’s preposterous. I’m not sure which time period you are talking about. But Pol Pot alone killed more people than we have done since the start of Vietnam.

    If you are including post-WWII and since — the leader would easily be China, thanks especially to its Cultural Revolution. (Which also still has slavery.)

    Since you include a mention of nuclear bombs, the leaders of mass death since the start of WWII would surely be Russia and China.

    In case you didn’t know it, the bombing of Hamburg killed more people than did the nuclear bombs dropped on Japan.

    5.This government supported aparthied and it was only after intense public pressure did this country come out against the South African government.

    Wright claimed the US put Mandela in jail. But both his claims and yours are preposterous lies. The US put sanctions upon the states practicing Apatheid. And we had nothing to do with the imprisonment of Mandela.